Rethinking MODx

Quote from: silent at Dec 08, 2006, 09:52 AM

I guess this has been suggested before:

Build a set of "out-of-the-box" solutions for typical site-types. (Blog-oriented, company-site, news-site etc.)
The easy part is the adaption of the basic layout, but anything more difficult, like snippets for navigation etc. would be already set up with a reasonable configuration that could (and should) but MUST not be adapted. Trying to improve/modify a running system is a more satisfying way of learning than to try to get something running in the first place.

I learned a LOT from the sample site.

There should be more of them to be downloaded/installed directly from modxcms.com

You got my +1, I suggested it a while ago but it didn’t seem to get much attention. I fully agree that it’d be nice to have multiple demo sites, I’ve learned a lot from them myself as well and especially stuff like creating a ’regular’ blog-like frontpage, using categories (or even better, tags) and fully getting how Jot works takes quite some time to figure out, a good frame to get started from as new user would definitely help.

I thought about that also, and came to the result that in the view of the enduser it makes the product more attractive to learn and "play with", but in the view of a developer it does not conform the word "framework", due to the fact that framworks are not content, but a tool to create content.

In conclusion, I would say that "out-of-the-box " solutions for typical demo-sites are nice to have, but not really important things in MODx developement.

my addition to the neverending story


regards .X4

if you install the sample site you will see that there are already quite a few demo’s.

g5604,

I think what people are talking about is sites that are complete in a typical configuration such as a blog, or a catalogue or someother format where it is install, insert content and done. Currently there is a basic format for a dynamic site but there are some typical installations that, if already implemented for the install it would shorten the length of time it would take to use.

There are core snippets that you can use to add functionality for the site but they are not configured and integrated into the base template. This means that for someone who is trying to build a blog that to get started with MODx the first thing they have to do after install is learn how to use the snippets, insert snippet calls, and modify the templates. It would be far easier for people to come to the finished install to see a template that already is configured with the snippet calls in some default fashion.

One could argue that this might be beyond the purposes of a PHP framework but it may speed up the learning curve to modify the templates and customize the snippet calls.

My own experience with WordPress, I learned how to build new templates by dissecting the Blix and Kubrick based WordPress Default templates. Conversely if I downloaded WP and all I had was a template that showed posts with their titles with no other features and functions and that is it I might not have been able to discover ways to use some of the more advanced features of the templating system.

Personally I think that it makes a tonne of sense for a MODx powered default install for blogs and some others because it will allow devs to see how things work and then start tweaking it until they can hack the hell out of it.

For me, I think this would be ideal for the shopX project as I would love to see a working store as an install that I could hack vs. me reading pages of forum posts to install and configure various and sundry chunks, snippets, TVs, without really ever being able to dissect someone else’s project first.

I think all that you mention might come in time, but you must remember modx is still very young.

I personally love the flexibility of modx, the very fact that you can not tell its a "modx site". If you are looking for out-of-the-box solutions then perhaps stick to software like wordpress?

g5604,

I agree that MODx is flexible and that it is invisible as a framework or a CMS and doesn’t "look" like one. And no, I won’t use WordPress for anything other than a pure blog site that needs the easy end user support.

I have also adopted MODx as the basis for all my projects. It is my dream framework and is as easy as pie if you have HTML, CSS and the PHP basics.

My main point was that the best way to learn how to work with a particular set of tools is to see examples of them in use and not just code clips posted into a forum. Context is a major factor in enabling understanding. If I can see how someone else did it I can then figure out how to do something similar myself and then take it to the next level.

Jay

As I’ve gone through my own learning and in reading through many, many posts and threads, I definitely think the forum represents the key audience for MODx... there are those who are more developers than designers, and those who are more designers than developers, and a few, bless ’em, that walk equally well on both sides of the fence.

In all cases though, the vast majority are roll-up the sleeves, get in and do something types. The challenge is when that first step is a big one. But the good thing about these types is that they don’t mind looking around at examples and demos to figure things out and I’m sure many of us would feel just as if not more comfortable with that than feeling like we’re asking what is probably a basic question. Not saying that basic questions are dumb or bad, but there are times when you know your question is basic and would gladly get the answer from somewhere else if only you could.

For all the talk of having a wiki, I don’t think it has caught on as much as I would have expected, which might be a good place for the "how to do this" type stuff that might help to get the ball rolling for more people. Hopefully that and more demo sites will continue to grow, especially now that we’re moving into a new release, but is still a good bit away from the much anticipated 1.0.

One thing that might help and would be great to see, and might also not take away as much time from developers would be a "best practices and why." At least I don’t think it would take as much time as putting together full documentations, how-tos, or demos and might prove very useful for those of us who haven’t logged the hours yet.

Some may place a lot of code and tags in their templates, while others may minimalize that, relying more on chunks. Some may use snippets directly and others may simply use includes and keep all the snippets outside the database. And I’m sure there are many other ways to slice and dice it. Of course one may not be better than another, but I think many of us are also trying to figure out the best ways to get the most out of MODx and do it efficiently, so seeing some of these ideas laid out with the pros and cons could at least help on that front. Kind of a best practices from the panel of experts! Especially while the core and the snippets are still so young that it seems like a constant update.

Indeed! I fully agree with all the previous posts. Maybe, that offering a set of "pre-packaged" modX versions would help. Depending on what the purpose of your first MODx site is, you can get (i.e. download & install) the appropriate starting point. I think this would not induce any significant amount of work, but just a selection of existing sites whose developers are willing to share their stuff.

best regards to the best forum I’ve ever been in!

An added benefit of pre-packaging is the download stats showing what people are trying to initially accomplish.

<modx onload="be cool">
<slang>
So y’all wunt sum mo demo pages huh?
k, would be co0wl if some peepz spent sum time on creatin demoz, nstead of busyieng da devs.

I’m for creating a new forum-section called: "Sample-Sites" where people can add their samples to demonstrate MODx’s powers.

X-Cheers
</slang>
regards .X4
</modx>
<donate>MODx</donate>