Framework vs CMS, Tattoo vs MODx : lets revive this and clarify !

Quote from: smashingred at Feb 22, 2008, 03:52 PM

David, great insight and thoughtfulness. What great company. Gentle, self deprecating and all with the simplest points.

Thanks

Quote from: BobRay at Feb 22, 2008, 10:32 PM

Jason’s probably not going to like this, but I think that from a marketing standpoint, it’s too late to call MODx anything other than a CMS. (...) I believe that what won the Packt award was MODx the CMS. A whole lot of what’s currently in the Wiki and docs is read by outsiders as referring to MODx the CMS. And, let’s face it, we’re having this discussion on modxcms.com.

Great feeback Bob, I think challenging our own assumptions is good, as you point out it’s easy to get lost in our own perspective. Actually, what you’re saying is the very point I was trying to make to begin with : we’re emphasizing more and more (but we always have been, by the way -> check the current modxcms.com homepage, it reads CMF from day one) the framework aspect of MODx.

It’s feedback from clients on modxcms.fr which had me think we had to avoid confusion by naming the framework.

Quote from: BobRay

If we want to make a public distinction between the application and the framework (and I’m not convinced that it’s a good idea), I really think that they need two different names and that it’s too late to use MODx as the name of the framework. If we try to say that MODx is two (or more) different things, we’ll just confuse people (and ourselves).

My point exactly !

Quote from: BobRay

So, in summary (thanks for reading this much of my rant), I think we need to emphasize that MODx is a single tool (possibly built on the amazingly powerful and robust --your name here -- Framework) that will take you to CMS heaven, the Swiss Army knife of CMSs, the preferred brand -- not of techies -- but of people who want a solid CMS that will make web-site creation and maintenance a dream instead of a nightmare, in other words, the ultimate CMS.

Certainly not a rant, more of a passionate advocacy of your point of view on the matter and as I said challenging what we take to be granted is very productive ! I am sure this will push us into being better at marketing MODx and also allow us to align with each other’s perspective

Saying MODx is built upon a framework doesn’t mean it’s not a single tool. You can certainly use MODx as a CMS, I should now since that’s what I do : I can’t use the framework to extend MODx capabilities since I am no coder. But let’s look at the "developper" target : I assume the content management framework aspect would definitely speak to them (but I am not the one to say, really).

Remember xPDO is already distributed as a standalone product (http://xpdo.org). Saying MODx 0.9.7 is built on xPDO would definitely make sense IMHO, and I don’t see how it could confuse people. Let’s say a developper wants to build an app upon xPDO, that would probably mean (correct me if I am wrong) that MODx and said app would be way easier to integrate. That would also mean big addons such as Ditto or MaxiGallery could become standalone app built upon it (maybe I am raving here...).

BobRay, Phew! Passion I think is what drives us all to use, and grow MODx and you’ve got it.

I wholeheartedly agree that MODx should be the end product that we "sell" and that should be focused. If people want to know more about what makes MODx tick then they can find out abot xPDO and the other elements that make up MODx.

To a certain segment of MODxs user base the nitty gritty about the API, Database Layer and the idea of MODx as a Model will be immensely interesting. To me who is learning application design and design patterns this is a little interesting but it is of little consequence on the decision making process for me to choose a CMS for a project.

MODx is whatever users and the aware public perceive it as. It is our job to shift perceptions if that is necessary but ultimately brands are a product of the public consciousness and not dictated from the ivory tower. McDonalds has a perception that belongs to the public whether you like it or hate it and can’t be controlled but only shifted slowly for a small number of people.

Is it of any value to attempt to shift user perception of MODxs definition or is it an exercise in futility OR would be better to focus on making MODx known and adopted by a wider more influential audience no matter what we want to call it.

Cheers all, (I’ve got 2 feet of snow to shovel now)

Jay

Quote from: smashingred at Feb 23, 2008, 07:56 AM

Cheers all, (I’ve got 2 feet of snow to shovel now)

It’s a lovely warm, hazy day here, birds singing, perfect spring day to be out most of the day.

It’s been a rough winter this year with more than 6 major storms and a total of 12-14 feet of snow (thank god it melts in the rain). We live near the ocean so we have warm days on and off.