[logo] tatoomania

• • MODX Staff
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  Ryan Thrash Reply #41, 20 years, 8 months ago

  I honestly don’t care about not crediting MODx on public sites or even maybe the manager login. After all, you don’t see Adobe or Microsoft scattered all over images and text documents everywhere. I wasn’t referring to requiring a MODx credit on the public-side of sites whatsoever. It’s nice and will probably get you brownie points, but certainly no requirement or even an expectation for that matter.
  
  However, the back end administration tool is another thing entirely. If they’re concerned about internal employees knowing what tools are used to create their public sites then quite honestly, I’m confused?
  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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  Ryan Thrash Reply #42, 20 years, 8 months ago

  And actually, in the ultimate manager overhaul, it should be pretty easy to add a company logo that grossly overshadows any "MODx branding" I’d think. But don’t hold me too that.
  
  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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  wendy Reply #43, 20 years, 8 months ago

  Whitefen, currently this is licensed under GPL. I don’t personally know the way how GPL work, but one thing that I know for sure that we currently doesn’t have any solid business model for MODx yet. When I said business, I’m not saying about making Tattoo or MODx into a commercial application, instead I’m saying about the underlying system to move the whole community and system to the next level.
  
  For me personally, I would love to have the ability to remove the copyright and *Bamm*, put my name on it, and then I admit this whole MODx system as my own system. But the fact is, I do realize as a programmer and half-designer that we really like to provide something for free, but we don’t want people to admit that system as their own product. That’s from the ethical stand point, which I think you should know this better as a designer (I assume you are).
  
  When we want to look into the professional stand point, I think somebody who knows more about GPL license might need to shout out their knowledge here.
  
  As for the solution, we need to look the solution from MODx business model. What you’re saying is true that clients always want something that they can depend on, which from my opinion, by changing the branding and name it willow, it won’t make a different as you’re stating it as Tattoo/MODx, right? It’s still the same system, and the only different is, the first one you are telling the client that this is your system, while on the second one, you admit it as some other open source system.
  
  Now, which one better is depended on a lot of thing. From my opinion, an enterprise client would love to know that their system will be backed up by a good strong support, which most likely they prefer a paid system. This is one of the major reason that enterprise/company still moving quite slow to embrace open source idea, because they thought a free software will result a bad support and etc (bias towards "paid system is more reliable than something free"). So the solution to this will be having a solid business model for MODx/Tattoo, that can stand out on the clients’ eyes.
  
  If I can say it better, in fact the client would love to know more about why open source is better, and why you offer him MODx/Tattoo, if you give them a good reasoning. Most of the time, we are using open source software to cut budget and increase the amount of revenue that we can earn by adminitng the open source system as our own, so the company thought that they have to pay a huge amount of money to let the owner develop it; while if you told them that you’re using open source/free system, they will backed away from that same amount of money, because the owner don’t even deserve to get that huge amount of money. Well if that’s the case, I don’t think it will loose you some money, while you’re not basically spent a lot of money in hiring developer to build the same kind of system, don’t you agree with me?
  
  So my whole point will be, it’s up to the person ideology. As my own ideology, instead of using open source and causing a less amount of money and credibility on my service, I would personally join the community and core team to build this system better, so I can admited that I’m part of the developer for this system. That’s why they need to pay me more compare to other people using the same oepn source system. Another advantage would be, I can show to the clients that I know this system better than any other people who just use it, but never really get into the system in detailed.
  
  More than that, if I can get my idea to the core team, I would love to see MODx/Tattoo to form a good business model in which my company able to work hand in hand with the official MODx/Tattoo foundation/company
  
  Sincerely,
  Wendy Novianto
  Wendy Novianto
  [font=Verdana]PT DJAMOER Technology Media
  [font=Verdana]Xituz Media
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  vbrilon Reply #44, 20 years, 8 months ago

  Quote from: Whitefen at Feb 03, 2006, 03:28 PM

  
  
  What I need is a customizable tool that allows me to create solutions for my clients that meet their requirements. At times, one of the requirements is that their site is not labeled by authors or tools outside of the company. If that is a violation of the terms of the MODx license then obviously I would need to look elsewhere for a solution and I could continue to use it for the projects/clients where this was not an issue.
  

  
  This is not a licensing issue. The GPL gives you the right to do whatever you want. I think it’s more of a matter of proper decency and respect for the authors of the software. If you choose not to honor the authors’ wishes to leave the branding in, they in return have no obligation to support you.
  
  You’re legally allowed to do anything you want with the software as long as it complies with the GPL. But if you expect community support, then please realize what they expect from you in return.
  I have been touched by His noodly appendage
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  Whitefen Reply #45, 20 years, 8 months ago

  I also wanted to add that one of the main things that attracted me to MODx out the sea of other CMSs was that the branding on the manager was very unobtrusive and ambiguous. If the new manager is going to have Tattoo written all over it with no ethical solution to remove that tagging it will certainly not be usable for a certain number of my clients.
  
  An example: My largest Web client does solutions for the Canadian Telephony industry and while the company I do work for tends to be pretty forward thinking they are EXTREMELY cautious about their image. Almost to a point of insanity at times. Looking at the login and manager the current MODx tagging is clean and professional, conservative in its content and volume and sounds like a framework technology, not a prepackaged solution. This is what I need.
  
  I also want to be clear that I don’t want cause or stir up trouble here but this issue is extremely important in my ability to use this tool as part of my business and therefore I want to be as clear as possible about my concerns and find out as much as I can about the path the project will be taking so that I can plan accordingly.
  
  Maybe I am trying to stick a round peg into a square hole here. I have been through a big fight already getting them to go with an open source solution at all (PHP, MySQL, Apache).
  
  Thanks.
  "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable."
  -- Sydney Harris
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  Ryan Thrash Reply #46, 20 years, 8 months ago

  If you find the current MODx manager acceptible, then the future one will be perfectly fine as well... it’s only going to become more refined and elegant.
  
  In fact, you should be able to insert your company’s logo very simply through the admin interface.
  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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  Garry Nutting Reply #47, 20 years, 8 months ago

  My sentiment on all the GPL stuff is really simple: Give credit where credit is due
  
  Last time I worked in the private sector, I found management very acute when it comes to value for money solutions and $$$$ savings!!
  
  And on the name of Tattoo, initially when I heard it mentioned on these forums the first thing I thought of was: ’Looks good to start off with but fades over time’ - however, I have no doubt whatsoever that this system will ever suffer from that
  Garry Nutting
  Senior Developer
  MODX, LLC
  
  Email: [email protected]
  Twitter: @garryn
  Web: modx.com
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  Whitefen Reply #48, 20 years, 8 months ago

  Quote from: rthrash at Feb 03, 2006, 03:44 PM

  
  However, the back end administration tool is another thing entirely. If they’re concerned about internal employees knowing what tools are used to create their public sites then quite honestly, I’m confused?
  

  
  It seems to me part of the discussion here needs to be a clarification between brand and credit. Client often like to brand their internal intranet tools and I see the MODx manager as an extension of this. There also already seems to be discussion about a templatable manager which would address this issue nicely so I don’t think that this is a controversial topic. I also agree with you 100% that credit should be available from the manager and a lot of it will depend on how it is implemented. If the user logs in and Tattoo is the first thing they see I don’t think my customers would tend to, at least initially, be easily sold on the idea. But if they logged in and they saw their band with a tasteful and reasonable credit statement and link I think that would be totally appropriate. I also agree that there is a difference between the manager which is internal only and the public site and the login. The public site and log-ins are a more sensitive issue because it directly visible by said companies clients.
  
  
  "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable."
  -- Sydney Harris
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  Ryan Thrash Reply #49, 20 years, 8 months ago

  I think we’re totally on the same page then.
  
  As far as the manager goes, though, I promise it’ll get much, much more acceptable based on the thread so far.
  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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  Whitefen Reply #50, 20 years, 8 months ago

  Quote from: vbrilon at Feb 03, 2006, 03:49 PM

  
  Quote from: Whitefen at Feb 03, 2006, 03:28 PM

  
  
  What I need is a customizable tool that allows me to create solutions for my clients that meet their requirements. At times, one of the requirements is that their site is not labeled by authors or tools outside of the company. If that is a violation of the terms of the MODx license then obviously I would need to look elsewhere for a solution and I could continue to use it for the projects/clients where this was not an issue.
  

  
  This is not a licensing issue. The GPL gives you the right to do whatever you want. I think it’s more of a matter of proper decency and respect for the authors of the software. If you choose not to honor the authors’ wishes to leave the branding in, they in return have no obligation to support you.
  
  You’re legally allowed to do anything you want with the software as long as it complies with the GPL. But if you expect community support, then please realize what they expect from you in return.
  

  
  This is in no way an ethical decision for me and where I can I would include ample credit. I in no way and under no circumstances would ever claim the work as my own. All I am saying here is that under specific and existing work contracts I have agreed to not include any credit statements as part of the agreement. This is for one particular client in a particularly conservative industry. The additional side of this is that my ability to tag "powered by" graphics is always at my clients discretion and will certainly be accepted more if the image is clean and professional, which from the feedback I am getting it is. So this will most likely be a non issue. Again, I repeat, this is not an issue of me wanting to claim this project as my own by slapping my own info on it. It is only an effort on my part to understand how well the MODx/Tattoo branding model fits into my business model which flexes over a broad range from very conservative to very liberal. In my heart I am very pro-open source and always make an effort to give back to the community.
  
  "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable."
  -- Sydney Harris

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