Sponsoring modules, plugins, snippets development

Quote from: davidm at Mar 19, 2006, 10:54 PM

Guys, don’t worry I don’t think we will fall into the $ trap... I very much agree with your analysis of the recent turn of events @WordPress. Matt seems to have great hopes for automattic but the way things are being handled is not necessarily a good thing for WordPress itself IMHO. For very different reason, Textpattern has suffered a great deal from Dean being away from the app’s development and the community ever since lauching TextDrive. With the Joyent buyout, it’s even more true... what followed lead some of us textpattern old timers to ask for some kind of basic organization and more communication. Finally, this has brought some improvement but after two years of comittment to txp I decided to "retire" from moderating the french community and writing the doc. The $ trap can take many forms...

Anyway, I agree that making $ with opensource projects is a fine line. It’s a balance to maintain and more importantly it’s a "spirit". This does not mean we should not be very careful to set up a sustainable development model : Ryan, Raymond, Jason and the team have put in hundreds of hours into this project and they all have bills to pay, a family to support and all...

The thing is, as long as the community gives back to the devs (can be donations, can be giving back a share of what you earn with the software, or also very important : contributing) and the devs don’t fall into the "fast & big bucks" syndrom, we’ll be fine. I think you can sell services and make a profitable living out of it, especially considering the great talents there are on this team. And to me, there is a big difference between 1) selling services (the premium paid support is a very nice idea) or 2) setting up a way to finance developments that wouldn’t be sustainable in the long run (core, major modules - plugins or snippets) without some kind of pledge or whatever system and 3) selling software or addons. Number 3 is not the way to go, it’s clear to me.

As for being "leery of putting the dev team out there for huge work", that’s a very good point. The way I see it, it’s a reminder that we should come up with ideas to make sure developping modules, plugins and snippets isn’t more rewarding financially than developping the core. The only idea that comes to mind is having a share of those development given back to the devs working on the core.

I like the idea. Like kickass I am not a young starry eyed idealist (though I am an idealist of some kind ), and the reason why I’ll donate a share of every contract I get working with MODx (My first 3 payment are coming up next month) is that I simply want the project to go on because MODx has become the most important tool for me. I like the "putting my money where my mouth is" sentence that I read somewhere when I came accross when I joined this community. That’s exactly the concept to me. I want MODx to keep improving, because I will get more contracts, then I’ll give more back and so on.. like Starbuck says, luckily if enough people believe in this, we’ll have a win-win situation...

I like what your saying, I just honestly can’t see how the ’give a little back’ financial model works. It seems awfully weighted on human nature, and to me still sounds like a bit of a charity.

The only reason I’m interested in what your planning is because I visited the etomite forum to get their story on how modX began. I don’t know all the players here, or there - because I’ve never been there before, but from what I read through quickly it sounded like money was one of the issues?

So, is what your saying speaking on everyone’s behalf ? Everyone’s happy with that model which I honestly can’t get my head around, nor see it being any different to that which appeared to be at the root of the etomite fracture ?

Or, perhaps I’m missing something because I’m a newbie and haven’t had time to read these forums from a-z.

David, are you saying that if a bunch of pledges are made for us to get a specific mod or add-on and some devs get it done and the money total is paid, then a percentage of that money total should go back to core development prior to the balance getting handed over to the mod coders? That would be fair. I know we aren’t talking huge amounts here, but it would sure pay for hosting and such and help cover some overhead. It would also extend ModX the right way to start attracting those users and coders who need forum integration and link directory integration and googlemap/postalcode integration, and other common cms needs.

Starbuck, I don’t have the whole (or actually much of any part) of the etomite to modx story, but I will tell you this from my own personal experience. I checked out both scripts for the first time around 4 or 5 months ago, downloaded both and started asking questions. My reception there as a noob asking a question was one of "Why are you wasting our time with this? Search the forum, you idiot." (which I had, only to find that the etomite forum search was damn near useless) whereas here I was welcomed, treated warmly, and my questions, no matter how dumb, were answered thoroughly and with kindness and respect. Take it for what it’s worth . . . I’m hanging here. And you cannot discount what community spirit is capable of doing. And any contribution is worthwhile, whether it’s money, or helping with the documentation effort, or including a ModX link in your other forum signatures to help with ModX promotion, blogging about your positive ModX experience (don’t forget the tech tags!) and helping to generate some buzz, or actually helping with core php coding and mod development.

As one of the founders, I can assure you that MODx starting had absolutely nothing to do with monetary reasons. The short version is that everything MODx was removed from the forums at Eto totally unannounced and without so much as a courtesy warning ... exactly 1 year ago today in fact. They still continue on with the practice of not allowing "MODx" on the forums; I guess it’s a four-letter word.

So while MODx was started roughly 6 months prior to our being "pushed from the nest", tonight is a really interesting anniversary of sorts.

Happy anniversary ! of sorts

Kickass - we’re already spreading the word, and sending people in this direction . . .plus we’ve got 4 tug-boat sites in production, including a tutorial site - which appropriately, is a tutorial on how the tutorial site gets built from scratch using modX.

And my site is sort of an informal MODx booster site as well, with articles and demos of stuff I’m doing for MODx.

Quote from: Starbuck at Mar 20, 2006, 12:11 AM

I like what your saying, I just honestly can’t see how the ’give a little back’ financial model works. It seems awfully weighted on human nature, and to me still sounds like a bit of a charity.

I understand how it would seem hard to make this work... but I am quite optimistic that it can be profitable. It just requires a bit of thought is put into building a profitable model.

My take on things is any business is based not only on money but also on trust. Any business relationship in which trust is not reciprocal is bound to be unstable and short term oriented. The bottom line is "how do we trust one another to make this work ?". Well, we have food for thought here, I have no definite answer, but I sure find this an interresting challenge

Quote from: Starbuck

So, is what your saying speaking on everyone’s behalf ?

I am pitching ideas here, and no I am not speaking on everyone’s behalf, only the founders could do that...

Quote from: Starbuck

Everyone’s happy with that model which I honestly can’t get my head around, nor see it being any different to that which appeared to be at the root of the etomite fracture ? Or, perhaps I’m missing something because I’m a newbie and haven’t had time to read these forums from a-z.

Well, as I said, I am pitching ideas and trying to get the debate rolling, so that we can come up with a smart way to fund MODx dev and have a profitable model up and running. There’s no real recipes for success and I guess opensource communities still have to figure out how to make this new economy of sort work in the long run...

I think one big factor for this model to work is having a wide enough second tier (designers, coders) base, willing to play along the lines of sharing profit. This will require finding nice incentives to do so This might be early access to those new modules, plugins, snippet. Let’s say you have a first limited release before the public release is made. It could be beneficial because you could offer your clients features that people who wouldn’t have contributed couldn’t get immediately. Or you could have those contributors belonging to a certified partners approval stamp... things have to be imagined here, just throwing a few things on the fly...

Quote from: sottwell at Mar 20, 2006, 07:57 AM

And my site is sort of an informal MODx booster site as well, with articles and demos of stuff I’m doing for MODx.

It sure is !

And it’s a great example of what I meant by contribution. Dedicating time and skills to the project is a great way to help it, as much as any financial contribution... Quality support, documentation, new modules, snippets and plugins as well as the life of the forums depend on it...

This is one key point to keep the opensource spirit at center, which will allow us to avoid the $ trap...

Quote from: rthrash at Mar 20, 2006, 05:35 AM

So while MODx was started roughly 6 months prior to our being "pushed from the nest", tonight is a really interesting anniversary of sorts.

I was so much into work that I completely missed it !
Anyway, there is a lot to be proud of as far as what has been accomplished with MODx in just a year !!!

Happy Anniversary to the founders !

Happy Anniversary!

Quote from: davidm at Mar 20, 2006, 12:31 PM

Or you could have those contributors belonging to a certified partners approval stamp...

Anything that hasn’t been tried and failed before is a good idea - this, is a good idea!

Why not, if it makes sense, but explain what your getting for $50 and then maybe canvass user base to get an idea of who would use it. This can only help with funding Modx development.



Yes, I think this should happen personally. For me, not for someone to deal with my users direct but to provide support to ourselves. If something seriously goes wrong, I need to know I have access to core developers to help resolve it very fast. I don’t think this will have any real impact on Modx forums as a high percentage of support is being provided user to user already in addition to core team.



I would be apposed to this personally, I think it would distract from core development and as customer work grows, put pressure on core developers to complete commercial work rather than work on Modx. There is also a risk of our own customers bypassing us and thinking "I’ll go direct to Modx"



This is already running and some contribution’s are being made. It provides a means for those of us who want to make donations to be able to do so but I think everyone understands that the income will never sustain anything close to Modx running costs.



Right now, all I know is that I would love to have access to some commercial level add-ons. Such add-ons will deliver a good Return for our customers and as such they will pay. But at the same time its important to ensure that Modx framework is always free and enhanced. This could be achieved by always committing minimum of xxx hours to Modx development and publishing what’s coming in the next version (Ideally based on most requested user enhancements). That way everyone can be confident of the core product development and time committed by the development team as something separate to commercial developments which in any event should be add-on (integrated) applications such as project management, not framework enhancements.

I had previously suggested that a commercial level add-on could require a software key to integrate it to Modx and that the key itself is something developed by Modx. This would ensure a revenue stream everytime a commercial product is sold. If someone writes something as a free Open Source alternative, so be it, nothing wrong with healthy commpetition. With this model users could rate the support/ product as there may be an issue if support was poor or who provides it. Handled correctly there would also be an opportunity for MODx founders to talk to third parties who have good products where they could work together to create integration/ single-sign-on etc. This could result in discounts negotiated on approved products for Modx members etc.

Personally I see this as only positive, just like MODx itself does as a CMS, it’s making everyones life easier and providing more choice.