Joomla VS ModX - Reloaded.

I discovered ModX last week.

I’m now developing all sites in ModX.

Have helped charities in the past to install and get going on joomla.

ModX knocked spots of joomla (and drupal - which is too complex and requires a big learning curve)

As far as I’m concerned, the ModX manager is perfect,logical, easy to get to know so that new sites can be developed quickly, yet potentially very powerful.

I’m really enjoying using and learning it. I only wish I discovered it months ago.

I’m not bothered with joomla’s rigidity or drupal’s over complexity any more !

Big thankyou to all ModX developers !

showman

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

This is Acquia’s business model -- a very regulated Drupal distro wherein one can count on any included addon to just work.

We will definitely be doing this for specific vertical industries with various targeted distributions/Extras packages. But IMO, it is more important to focus on building a thriving ecosystem for developers and solution providers that want to build on the MODx core framework, and that means the core framework must meet the needs of these people.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

MODx has gone some of this way with its inclusion of Ditto etc.

This is where opinions will differ; I personally will never use Ditto because it tries to do too much and is not at all efficient. But then, to me, that is the beauty of MODx, I can choose to build lists of Resources however I want and the same with any other feature provided by an add-on. I don’t have to hack the core or figure out how to work in some monolithic module that doesn’t quite do what I need it too, I can just write some simple PHP code and move on.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

MODx Revo should have its release whatever the devs want it to be and there should be specific inclusion or recommendation of which addons will definitely work, AND some reasonable guarantee that an addon/whatever will be maintained and supported.

If you pay for commercial support from the MODx Team, I would agree you should get some guarantees; otherwise, this is an open source project, and meant to be a platform for solution providers to develop custom solutions for their clients on. If this was a commercial product, I would agree with you, but this is contrary to the idea of creating an open source framework and the success of the framework then depends on all the "official" add-ons that get included with it (a major problem right now with Evolution). The vision is for solution providers to develop pre-configured distributions using the MODx Revolution SDK that include a full sample site or set of specific Extras to help jump-start development of a particular type of site.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

Addon maintenance/support/quality etc. is a weakness of many FOSS projects since core code developers obviously focus on core code, making an app’s core very strong, with wildly variable addons.

Again, as a framework we have to nurture and encourage adoption by developers and solution providers, developing a micro-economy around the core. Then the core team must work with these Extras developers through internal projects, partnerships, and support contracts to continually improve the framework to make the Extras that much more flexible and powerful. Only if this ecosystem developers will the MODx project succeed as a FOSS project.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

For example, I’m sure many listed ’extras’ are either sporadically maintained/supported or not at all. The templates section contains embarassingly many 404 links, as well as several calendar ’extras’ links being 404s or just wrong, etc.

This is IMO, because the expectation that Extras are part of MODx, but we are simply providing a space for 3rd party developers to submit and distribute their offerings. Only if those with an interest in MODx contribute to keeping the Repository in order (same goes for documentation) will this model work. TBH, I am pushing for a more decentralized model where developers and solution providers can host their own Repositories containing their MODx Extras.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

For example, I Googled most of my info on how to set up an events calendar etc. since few listings in the ’extras’ section were helpful.

IMO, this is simply a sign that we do not yet have proper adoption by generic Extras developers with a business model for selling/supporting what they are creating. For instance, I’ve created several events calendars customized to the needs of my specific clients in MODx, but they are not generic solutions that can be shared and work for everyone’s events calendar requirements. The ability to provide such customized solutions on MODx means that generic ones are not as prevalent as they are in other CMS projects.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 10:08 AM

Core code can be wonderful but I think addons are what make a FOSS project really go...in this respect Joomla/Drupal are ahead of MODx in sheer quantity regardless of what one says about their quality per se.

In Joomla!/Drupal, the core is nothing without a module, and customizing the important modules can compromise any upgrade path. This is not true of MODx. I build complete sites in MODx without using a single pre-made Add-On, though I generally have a library of simple Add-Ons I use on many sites or customize slightly as required. I’m not rejecting the fact that the availability of quality Extras affects adoption of MODx. And we will certainly do what we can to encourage the development of quality Extras for the MODx platform, but it is not our intention to build our core business model around creating and maintaining generic free Extras in addition to the core framework. Rather, we want to help developers and solution providers create/maintain great sites and web applications for/with the best framework we can build.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

Quote from: OpenGeek at Feb 24, 2010, 11:31 AM

We will definitely be doing this for specific vertical industries with various targeted distributions/Extras packages. But IMO, it is more important to focus on building a thriving ecosystem for developers and solution providers that want to build on the MODx core framework, and that means the core framework must meet the needs of these people.

Good point. However, I think some ’extras’ nearly everyone would use -- blog, form, etc. -- and these could be standardized.

My belief is that a blog and a form is an abstract concept and there are many ways to implement these things on the web; ways that are changing everyday. In order for MODx as a platform to remain viable long-term, I think it’s critical that multiple implementations develop and are able to evolve with web standards. Rather than making one size fit all, we offer a variety of size, shape, and color options.

Ultimately the MODx platform is intended to foster coopetition amongst Extras developers, but we need more Extras developers for the vision to be realized. It would be a crime to me to ignore the core platform and put a band-aid on the symptoms at this stage. I am dedicated to making Revolution attractive to developers first and foremost; I feel if I don’t the great potential MODx stands for will be lost to a few standard "core" modules that make MODx little more than a Joomla! or Drupal with unnecessary flexibility and way too many decoupled pieces to achieve the same end.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

Another good point. Documentation of alternative methods and techniques could be added so people know about them. Not everyone is a PHP programmer and able to crank out new code for a situation.

We know that, and that is why we have to make MODx an attractive platform so PHP programmers will create easy-to-use solutions for non-programmers. As a relatively small core team, there is no way we can do both effectively.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

Yet another good point. With regard to the vision, documentation of how to do or use things will be very helpful.

Will be a huge priority once we release RC1. But we could still use help testing, getting feedback, reporting bugs, and documenting things, especially developers or those interested in developing Extras for MODx.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

How does decentralizing the MODx Extras make them more maintainable or easier for people to find or use??
Every FOSS project I use has some kind of centralized way of finding addons etc., regardless of where they might be downloaded from.

I’ll avoid harping on how MODx is not like every FOSS CMS project out there and simply say that offering individual developers or development shops with teams of developers the ability to host their own MODx transport packages and deliver those directly to their customers via the manager interface is a key part of the MODx Revolution vision. Being able to distribute your own Extras to the public or just distribute updates to custom packages you have implemented for clients, provide commercial support for them, and generally be in total control of that process should be attractive to the people we are trying to attract to the platform. And this will make it super easy for end-users to apply updates to various component packages.

Finding package providers will be the key and is something we will address if the idea comes to fruition. For now we have a centralized repository for those that do not need or want to host their own Extras, but it is still the responsibility of the contributors, or those who so choose to help, to maintain the packages.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

I don’t know if it would work to allow people to offer ’generic’ Extras and also ’custom’ Extras for specific use cases or that have specific requirements for usage?? Perhaps this could be considered when MODx is more established.

It works now; we create custom Extras packages for our clients in-house that we or they can apply via Package Management.

Quote from: TomMLS at Feb 24, 2010, 12:28 PM

You all can only do so much in a day. Even if I disagree with the what/how of the devs’ planning and development of MODx, I do applaud that you all appear to be keeping a very clear focus for the future, this will be very important...

A brief progress report on the blog would be nice to see in the near future.

I agreed we can only do so much, and that’s why we need to be able to focus on the core and interact with add-on developers in a systematic way to keep the core platform viable. And you are right, some more blog posts from me would be appropriate. I get caught up in the code and forget to express intentions and vision enough. I’ll make an effort to change that starting today.

Thanks for your thoughts.