A rant about design and CMS

Let me state it here, funding for core devs is not as important as getting 3rd party developers to contribute. I say that as a lead core team developer.

This is an open source community, not a paid-to-make open source community. Our community will only be as strong as our volunteers.

The greatest needs for MODx right now are:

1. 3rd Party Developers - we need people making Extras for MODx. We need this more than anything else. Solid extras. Flexible extras. And just in general, extras. In a solid open source environment, the Core Team doesn’t make Extras. The community does; the Core Team works on the Core. This is not currently the case in MODx. Push hard on your clients to have them let you contribute back your code to modx. If the U.S. White House can do it for Drupal, I know the MODx community can.

2. Documentors - The Core Team members are not documenters by nature. We need people who are willing to plan and contribute both end-user, designer and developer documentation (especially for Revolution, as it is the future). This is essential, and don’t just need official documentation work (though we do need that!). We also need people blogging about MODx: their experiences, their code snippets, thoughts, etc. We need the 3rd Party Components (Extras) documented. Then, we need more thorough and easy to understand official docs.

3. Evangelists - We need people willing to tell others how good MODx is. Bloggers. Twitterers. Forum posters.

4. Proactive Members - We have an excellent community. Let me reiterate that: we have an excellent community here at MODx. That said, we need to take it to another level - if you see a way MODx can improve infrastructure-wise (such as in documentation, website, code, extras, etc), please-please-please post about it in the forums and we’ll talk with you about how you can help make that happen. What we can’t get into is saying "MODx doesn’t have this, but maybe it will." Let’s be a "why not now?" instead of a "not yet" crowd.

As for the money issues for 3rd party devs - we’ll be adding some new partner programs here in the future that will help. Revolution also supports Providers (similar to modxcms.com/extras/ that Package Management uses), that we’ll allow to be password-protected to download from - meaning you could have a custom Provider that people have to buy a license before they can download from. We’ll also release the code for custom providers after Revo GA hits. Again, the details on all of this are in the works, but I can guarantee we’re working on it.

I do like the idea of Credited Developers. However, you’ll see soon enough that we have some ideas for this in the works already.

Again, the MODx community is fantastic. This thread is excellent, and I really enjoy and agree with a lot of the thoughts here. Thanks guys, and please continue discussing.

Obviously I have contributed financially to ModX, but I’m also sure that if a professional support service was in place, then my clients would happily pay for it.

Can’t say too much, but I can say we have a plan in the near future for this.

I know many companies that work with it (I hope they all contribute) but never post on ModX forums for instance. It is used a lot in the professional web domain and yet not often written about. I will hopefully get to write a large blog entry soon on my experiences with ModX on my new site when I finish it (built in Revo and HTML5).

This is something we hope will change. More blog posts about MODx will spread MODx much faster than anything else.

Anyway just my thoughts, Jim

Thanks Jim. We’ve actually thought a lot of the same things, and I can tell you you’ll be pleasantly surprised here in the near future.

Quote from: allanb at Apr 22, 2010, 02:49 PM

QUESTION

If I tell a client I can save you $10,000 if we use an existing add-on.
Will they still want me to write a specific solution to give them market exclusive code.(that can be ’easily’ reverse engineered)

If they do they are not smart and that goes against the principal of using a community driven tool such as MODx. What happens though is that a client will ask for a specific tool that does not have an addon, in which case they will need to invest in developing the tool themselves. In some cases the client will be happy to share it. However, more often than not, the client will want to keep it private, specially if they think it gives then an edge. I have this happen quite a bit, but it is mostly geared to a specific market and would not benefit many users anyway.

Quote from: allanb at Apr 22, 2010, 02:49 PM

What is vital is the core developers must be able to sustain a living from MODx.

I agree 110% with this. However, need to have a model where those who develop specifically for MODx can also make a living. Otherwise there will never be a MODx developer, rather there will only be PHP developers who know MODx. I think that to push the MODx envelope there need to be specialized developers devoted to working with MODx. From personal experience I can say that it is not easy to focus entirely on MODx, unlike other systems such as WordPress or Drupal, where the user base is so huge that a developer can work exclusively with a tool and not worry. I am finding that there is plenty of MODx work out there, but not enough to make a serious living out of it. Which is why I have been playing with other systems. And I hate to hit the same nail over again, the dev market for MODx is very competitive... partly because it is not a complicated system to work with (unlike most of the others). Basically any php dev with some MODx experience can be a MODx developer. To be a WP developer you need to understand things like the loop and how to break the themes apart as well as be savvy in php, to be a Joomla developer you need to be slightly nuts, but also need to understand that chaotic system so there is a definitive niche and a huge user base. MODx is easy to develop for, it is easy to work with... wich is why we love it, but it makes it a hard platform to launch a business exclusively supporting MODx. Also since it is easy, many companies opt to have an in-house MODx guy rather than to farm out work. Even if the dev is not MODx savvy at first, they can pick it up and learn quickly. Again, this is what is wonderful about MODx as a tool, but it is also what makes the dedicated MODx developer an endangered species.

There have been talks about dev hubs for MODx projects to create full scale add-ons to help make MODx more popular as well as to provide some of the missing links that may be keeping MODx from expanding to its full potential at a faster pace. That, to me is a fantastic idea. But now we have a new question, do people invest in developing for Evo or Revo? Most clients I talk to are not ready to dive into Revo yet. Very few have even asked about it. The other day I got a request for a rather complex project that would be in Revo but even that client was not sure that it would be in Revo simply because there are not enough developers that would be able to support them whereas in Evo the dev pool is large.

Anyway, not sure what I am talking about. The pain killers have kicked in and I cant feel my fingers anymore... must be time to shut up

Quote from: splittingred at Apr 22, 2010, 05:14 PM

3. Evangelists - We need people willing to tell others how good MODx is. Bloggers. Twitterers. Forum posters.

I have been planning on reviving my blog/twitter. This discussion has given me plenty of motivation.

Quote from: BobRay at Apr 22, 2010, 04:55 PM

Quote from: Photowebmax at Apr 22, 2010, 01:02 PM

I can’t tell you how often I have become humbled and impressed with the knowledge of many of the MODx gurus on this forum - but when I venture over to their own sites I am often surprised how ordinary or limited these sites actually are. Its surprising in a strange way. If I was not totally impressed and familiar with the individual’s knowledge base and experience I would not have given many of these sites a second glance.

I’m trying (unsuccessfully) not to take this personally.

Like Susan, I struggle with design. I’m also not all that interested in it. I would much rather visit a site that makes it easy to find what I want than one that looks impressive. Of course it’s nice to have both, but it’s also a matter of time allocation. I can spend time struggling to make my sites look good or I can spend it adding useful information. I suspect that most of my site visitors would prefer the latter. That’s certainly how I feel about the sites of other MODx experts.

Your point about making MODx more attractive and useful to designers, however, is a good one, IMO.

Bob,

Please take my inane ramblings with a grain of salt. Your credentials speak for itself.

Some say design and presentation is just fluff and eye candy. Others place a high priority on it. Really good sites offer great content, useful information, easy to use functionality and and an approachable system for users and site owners alike. Success is the sum of the parts as the saying goes. But presentation (in all its forms) plays a big role on delivering the whole package.

I often read involved threads on new snippets or PHP tweaks that are very thorough, but still leave me wandering "yes, but what does this actually do and why would I want it?"

I follow a bunch of design sites and CSS forums etc. There is amazing work going on in these arenas. Many of these guys work with Wordpress as their CMS of choice. Drupal is popular as well. There are a lot of design guys who have absorbed some jQuery and scripting knowledge and sandwich that knowledge into Wordpress. There is a ton of backwards engineering going on with respect to making themes (templates) work.

I really sense that MODx could be the next wave here as MODx is great to design with. It really is. A ton of designers who practice tearing apart theme code could be actually designing straight into MODx. The ease of going from a static test page to functioning MODx template is one of the main MODx attractions in my book, but this facet is not highlighted enough in my opinion. Attracting more designers could tip the scales towards MODx. I would welcome this as I think the MODx knowledge base and learning structure will become more rounded as a result.

In the end having increased numbers of great looking sites that also push the boundaries of the MODx development structure is good for all who call MODx "home."

More excellent points.

I’ve done design in WordPress and, compared to MODx, it’s like trying to type with mittens on. If we could get those guys to try MODx, they’d never go back. Not being much of a designer, I’m not the person to convince them. Hopefully, people like you will create some sites and articles about what a dream it is to do design in MODx.

I think once Revolution is truly out, we’ll see some packages for standard sites that will provide a platform designers can use as a starting point.

MODx users are like house owners! People who wants freedom of choice.
I.e. decide if house should be multi-level (*multi-lingual) or not. It’s hard work and lots of maintenance (*patching bugs).
They often have to ask for help and help out their neighbors. A big number of house owners are construction
workers (*PHP gurus) or very handy themselves to fix and build things.

WP, Jooomla users are like apartment owners! People who’s main concern is the interior design (*front-end designers), they really like to share and promote their views on color and decoration (*write tutorials).
They do the right thing to live in apartments.

----------------

After hacking existing add-ons, snippets, plugins and MODx core
files, meanwhile learning as much PHP as possible, a house owner will find
himself - no longer in the need of hiring contractors/construction companies!
He will be able to use his own plugins and snippets for the most tasks.

Open-source (*neighbors) rock! But nothing comes free. One can take as much one give.

Quote from: Photowebmax at Apr 22, 2010, 06:17 PM

I really sense that MODx could be the next wave here as MODx is great to design with. It really is. A ton of designers who practice tearing apart theme code could be actually designing straight into MODx. The ease of going from a static test page to functioning MODx template is one of the main MODx attractions in my book, but this facet is not highlighted enough in my opinion. Attracting more designers could tip the scales towards MODx. I would welcome this as I think the MODx knowledge base and learning structure will become more rounded as a result.
In the end having increased numbers of great looking sites that also push the boundaries of the MODx development structure is good for all call MODx "home."

To be honest, we already have *tons* of excellent looking sites in the MODx Showcase that show the power of MODx for designers.

What I really think will convince designers is not more sites - I really do believe that articles, blog posts, and screencasts about MODx will convince designers that MODx is the best tool for them. Hands down, those are the most convincing things for designers. You would not believe the flood of traffic from designers we got here when 456bereastreet wrote a CMS post and MODx was in it.

Quote from: mrhaw at Apr 22, 2010, 10:07 PM

MODx users are like home owners!
WP, Jooomla users are like apartment renters!

Great analogy

And absolutely fantastic discussion! Discussions like this is why you have to love the MODx community.

MODx core team has done outstanding work with the new Revolution but for some reason third party developers are still on hold and not very actively developing new extras. I’m also one to blame for this. Some kind of tip jar or similar could motivate third party developers to be more active.

For example I haven’t had the time to improve or perhaps completely rewrite the QuickManager+ plugin in last 6 months or so. I have a long todo/wishlist for many great features but since I haven’t needed these features in my recent client projects I haven’t had enough motivation to implement these new features.

This sure is a problem with many extras. Most of them are written for some custom project and then published for the use of the community for common good. But once the requirements of the custom project are filled the extras development stops too.

Hi All

I have read all posts twice since my last post.

And I think all points are worthwile (nothing wasted here)

IMHO @splittingred has hit the nail on the head with
Quote from: splittingred at Apr 22, 2010, 10:18 PM

To be honest, we already have *tons* of excellent looking sites in the MODx Showcase that show the power of MODx for designers.

What I really think will convince designers is not more sites - I really do believe that articles, blog posts, and screencasts about MODx will convince designers that MODx is the best tool for them. Hands down, those are the most convincing things for designers. You would not believe the flood of traffic from designers we got here when 456bereastreet wrote a CMS post and MODx was in it.

In particular screencasts for those of us that are new to this.

If I see how much time and effort is put into answering *simple* questions that can be found with very little effort (I’m not exempt) but we need good screencasts lots of people today don’t know how (don’t want) to read documentation even if it is excellent.

We need more people like Mary @einsteinsboi from the coding pad here style of teaching is excellent especially for newcommers.
@splittingred has also shown his ability here. (for the more advanced).

I don’t know what first got me to MODx but it was not blogs I am sure. ( I only read tech stuff)

What made me interested was the open way (no fighting) people deal with each other even if they don’t agree. (agree to differ)

Someone mentioned there is a wealth of knowlege in the forums, I could not agree more but to find it sometimes.

Does anyone know of a way to sive through a list of posts and extract the answer in an easy way. I can only think long hand with cut and paste.