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    • 28042 ☆ A M B ☆
    • 24,524 Posts
    No, I was just being grumbly. The weather has been awful and my roof (newly renovated) leaks.
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      • 10357
      • 573 Posts
      Quote from: sottwell at Feb 16, 2011, 03:17 PM

      So far, as I follow the forums, I’m seeing far too many problems with Revo stemming from its relative complexity. Nobody but the dev team seems to fully grasp the user management system, for example. Lots of odd problems with various server configurations. The javascript appears to be fragile and a bit flaky.

      You have hit the nail on the head about the current state on revo.. but there are many, many improvements that mean I can live with a few things that will ultimately be fixed\simplified.
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        I personally do not recommend Revo to a someone without moderate html css js php skills but I would recommend Evo for beginners.
          • 10357
          • 573 Posts
          Quote from: cipa at Feb 16, 2011, 04:48 PM

          I personally do not recommend Revo to a someone without moderate html css js php skills but I would recommend Evo for beginners.

          I have seen this sort if comment posted before and I do not understand it at all. Revo works very similar to evo, you still have snippets, chunks, tv’s etc. Nothing has really changed with regards to template building. You just have a few more bells and whistles if you need them.

          The learning curves only come from a few weird UI interactions (user management is a disaster) and if you want to develop your own complex snippets\plugins.
            • 18913
            • 654 Posts
            I have seen this sort if comment posted before and I do not understand it at all.

            Maybe it’s just me, but most of the clients I deal with are more focused on trying to move their business or organization forward, rather than trying to assimilate a new vocabulary. Typically, they are individual business owners or small non-profits. The closest thing to an "IT" person or department is the Geek Squad at Best Buy. But their goals and aspirations are by no means unsophisticated.

            Given that, there is absolutely zero-chance that I’d be able to make many of the clients I have come across comfortable navigating Revo. And at the moment, the learning curve *I’d* need to go up and the tools I’d need to create in order to make *their* learning curve easier is too steep to make economic sense. The slower speed of the manager is one small thing that contributes to this sentiment, particularly as I find Firebug a very useful tool.

            What has been done with Evolution is amazing and what is going to be done with Revolution will be amazing - of that I am certain. But there’s a saying that an army runs on its stomach. Or, put differently, an army needs to be careful to not outrun its supply lines. For me, those supply lines take the form of worked examples posted by *very* generous forum participants, tips and tricks found in the archives, and very detailed and ongoing dialogues with *very* generous forum participants. IMHO, the supply lines for Revo are too thin. The generosity of forum participants is not the issue. It’s just that most of the material seems aimed at code ninjas and is not something that I can readily use to help a small business owner. At least at this stage...

            On a lighter note, my sister used to manage a group of people who took incoming calls in supporting the clients of a particular business. Not surprisingly, they would get frustrated from time to time. So my sister took a roll of bubble wrap, unwound it and taped it to the wall of a small unused room.

            It’s amazing how therapeutic popping bubble wrap turned out to be.

            And while it might drive your office-mates nuts, it doesn’t result in concussions wink
              • 18373 ☆ A M B ☆
              • 3,141 Posts
              I had a look at a site Bertoost (he posted earlier in this topic) was complaining about, to see if it could be optimized, and with a dozen calls to getResources, another dozen (uncached) if statements that was definitely possible.. but even then - the actual generation time of the front-end was 500ms (with some smarter use of caching mechanisms and perhaps some custom code, I guess that could be brought down to say, 200-300ms max?). The rest of the 5-10 seconds of loading a page was due to *a lot* of images being loaded, way over 30 iirc. While the site seems slow then, and it’s easy to blame the cms, cleaning up your code is your own responsibility and using css sprites or other techniques to minimize the http requests and file sizes (gzip?) has way more influence.


              That’s also the case with the manager. ExtJS does deliver bloated code, and the dev preview of extjs4 looks better, but by using this JS framework the core devs had time to focus on features - the quick update and other very convenient features you don’t think about when using... but end up missing when you open up Evolution.

              Still - if anything takes longer to load than, say, 10 seconds, something is wrong. If anything is taking longer than 5-7 in browsers other than Firefox, something is wrong. My guess is that’s misconfiguration (files which aren’t loaded compressed, mis-configured servers, slow mysql servers). Or an anti virus program running in the background.

              The number of people having no trouble at all is the proof that the core works - it can load pages within 2 seconds! Just need to get your set-up right. Revolution isn’t meant to be on old servers as it used new technologies to give you amazing opportunities. Would you install Windows 7 on your old Windows 95 computer?

              Evolution is an awesome product, too. And I am a big fan of Revolution due to some of the headaches Evolution has given me (and still is in supporting older clients). But by no means is Evolution dead, or going to be extinguished soon. Just look at the contributor’s list for the last 1.0.5 release - it may have taken a while but that support shows you that if you choose to stay with Evolution you are still in good company (like Susan!).
                Mark Hamstra • Developer spending his days working on Premium Extras and a MODX Site Dashboard with the ability to remotely upgrade MODX and extras to make the MODX world a little better.

                Tweet me @mark_hamstra, check my infrequent blog at markhamstra.com, my slightly more frequent ramblings at MODX.today or see code at Github.
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                From what I am seeing from page 2 of this thread is that most people are ranting, but none are giving there server specs so the MODX team has no way of replicating what they are experiencing.

                If your going to say it slow and buggy please give you server details as it will help the team diagnose the problems and fix them.

                For me Revolution has been a god send, Front end is 100% faster than Evo, manager is slightly slower but for the extra power I have I’m more than happy to compensate.

                Revolution all the way for me grin
                  • 18913
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                  I’m looking back over what I wrote above (on a full stomach smiley ) and can see that I may have come across more as contributing to a rant than a constructive conversation. For that I apologize - it was not my intent. The part about wanting to be comfortable explaining the ins-and-outs of things to clients still stands.

                  But the part about the supply lines I think is mis-aimed. I’d like to endeavor to be one of those contributors who does the hard work of slogging through ninja-speak and saying, "okay, here’s what mere mortals can do with that," thereby making the supply line a bit "thicker." My comment above does not rise to that standard and I’ll work on doing better.

                  The part about the bubble-wrap. Not takin’ back a word of it ...

                  Matt
                    • 3186 ☆ A M B ☆
                    • 279 Posts
                    I realy want to share all my server configurations to speed up things, please tell me what you need more.

                    This is our local server configuration

                    PHP 5.2.10
                    MySQL server 5.0.77
                    Apache 2.2.3

                    Intel Pentium Dual Core E5300 (2.60GHz,800MHz,2MB) VTx
                    250GB (7,200 rpm) Serial ATA2 Hard Drive (2x RAID mirror)
                    2GB (2x1024MB) 1066Mhz DDR3 Dual Channel

                    The configuration of our production server (a DDS?)

                    PHP 5.2.14
                    MySQL server 5.1.49
                    Apache 2.2.16

                    The other server specs I don’t know, I will get this as soon as possible.

                    Regards, Bert

                    [edit]

                    PDO version on local server: 5.0.77
                    PDO version on dds server: 5.1.49

                    [edit2]

                    DDS Server setup:

                    RedHat Enterprise Virtualization envoirement
                    Dell PowerEdge 2950, with iSCSI SAN for storage
                    Quad-Core Intel CPU 2 GHz
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                      • 3186 ☆ A M B ☆
                      • 279 Posts
                      Another thing that strikes me is that local installed projects witch uses PDO are slower then non-PDO projects/sites.

                      I don’t know if this is something to look at, but it sounds strange in my opinion...
                        MODX Ambassador (NL) & Professional MODX developer
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                        MODX e-commerce solution SimpleCart