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  • So after careful debate I have decided the time to speak up has come. So here are my thoughts on this post. First I understand the community being upset as a large MODX house we are upset, that said I understand why this is occurring. MODX is a business, and needs to make money. I also feel that given the team leading the shift to THEM this the best way to meet the need of generating revenue.

    So the issues:

    1: MODX is the asset of the business, and shifting to any solution that moves off of that is damaging to the business, it's assets, and brand.

    2: Brand Shift---> Again MODX being the asset shifting away from that only hurts the future success of this spinoff SiphonLabs. Like in TV not all spinoff's work nor carry the same weight. I would also point out like "Jeroen Kenters" said the SiphonLabs logo mostly is a trademark infringement of HTML5 is some form, or at least a based off of it. If the goal is distinguished SiphonLabs from MODX why not have Dustin who is both creative and extremely talented create a logo that is standing more on it's own legs.

    3:Transition--> So if I am understanding this correctly and I believe that I am. MODX Cloud which currently is still a child and needs to be nurtured, adjusted and get the bugs out before it is shipped off to college so to speak. What I am referring to is the introduction of WORDPRESS, JOOMLA, .... It is just to young and not ready. I agree there is room in the market for a solution that is created for large agencies to have one tool for all CMS platforms, but Cloud currently is not the solution for it's own platform so why would it try to grow further.

    4: Revenue--> I do strongly feel that resources of MODX (TALENT) should be where they make the greatest revenue for the business. As I currently understand it Cloud is not self sustaining as far as revenue. However MODX professional services for open source is. Thus to shift all the team members with the exception of Ryan and Jay to Cloud is NOT in the BEST interest of MODX.

    5:Leadership--> A key factor in developing good leadership is experience. Now I am not say the John, James, and Kevin band wagon does not have experience. They just may not have the right experience to make a venture like this successful going the direction they have chosen.

    I feel strictly from a previous investor stand point (NOT in MODX, but other TECH ventures) this is of greater damaging effect to MODX then removing the lifeboats from the Titanic before it left port. Simply put ICEBURG AHEAD GUYS.
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      I was going to start by asking you were you were getting that all members with the exception of Ryan and Jay were moving to SiphonLabs until I reread the article. It does say:

      the remaining MODX core team will be transitioning to SiphonLabs. This will include well known employees and MODX Project contributors Shaun McCormick, Jason Coward, Mike Schell, Garry Nutting, Yee Jee Tso and Dustin Walker.

      While that didn't immediately alarm me, what scares me about that is how much changes when who signs your paycheck changes.


      Quote from: Exceleron at Mar 28, 2013, 10:10 PM
      So after careful debate I have decided the time to speak up has come. So here are my thoughts on this post. First I understand the community being upset as a large MODX house we are upset, that said I understand why this is occurring. MODX is a business, and needs to make money. I also feel that given the team leading the shift to THEM this the best way to meet the need of generating revenue.

      So the issues:

      1: MODX is the asset of the business, and shifting to any solution that moves off of that is damaging to the business, it's assets, and brand.

      2: Brand Shift---> Again MODX being the asset shifting away from that only hurts the future success of this spinoff SiphonLabs. Like in TV not all spinoff's work nor carry the same weight. I would also point out like "Jeroen Kenters" said the SiphonLabs logo mostly is a trademark infringement of HTML5 is some form, or at least a based off of it. If the goal is distinguished SiphonLabs from MODX why not have Dustin who is both creative and extremely talented create a logo that is standing more on it's own legs.

      3:Transition--> So if I am understanding this correctly and I believe that I am. MODX Cloud which currently is still a child and needs to be nurtured, adjusted and get the bugs out before it is shipped off to college so to speak. What I am referring to is the introduction of WORDPRESS, JOOMLA, .... It is just to young and not ready. I agree there is room in the market for a solution that is created for large agencies to have one tool for all CMS platforms, but Cloud currently is not the solution for it's own platform so why would it try to grow further.

      4: Revenue--> I do strongly feel that resources of MODX (TALENT) should be where they make the greatest revenue for the business. As I currently understand it Cloud is not self sustaining as far as revenue. However MODX professional services for open source is. Thus to shift all the team members with the exception of Ryan and Jay to Cloud is NOT in the BEST interest of MODX.

      5:Leadership--> A key factor in developing good leadership is experience. Now I am not say the John, James, and Kevin band wagon does not have experience. They just may not have the right experience to make a venture like this successful going the direction they have chosen.

      I feel strictly from a previous investor stand point (NOT in MODX, but other TECH ventures) this is of greater damaging effect to MODX then removing the lifeboats from the Titanic before it left port. Simply put ICEBURG AHEAD GUYS.
        jpdevries
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        Quote from: vamporio at Mar 28, 2013, 09:31 PM
        Why not asking for a 5$ or 10$-donation at the download (-> and for motivation, you can add the newly created modx-website with rel follow, a ascreenshot and a small description to a catalogue of MODX-made websites on modx.com for your donation ---- or someting like that)?

        There is a donate page on the site http://modx.com/company/wall-of-fame/support-modx/ but it's somewhat buried. Personally, I think a new donation programme along the lines you suggested could be more effective.

        I would hope the creating of SiphonLabs https://angel.co/siphonlabs will result in the removal of the prominence of Cloud on the MODX homepage and it being reworked to focus on the open source/community aspect of MODX. This woule be an ideal time to implement a new core team donation programme. My own take on a donation scheme would involve encouraging developers, whether large, small or one-man bands, to donate a percentage (say 1%, 5% or whatever) of any fee/profit they may make from a developing a site for a client to the core development team.

        Focusing on high value enterprise may well be the correct strategy for shorter term monetisation of an open source product but I feel that expanding the smaller developer and enthusiast users is the key to long term survival in the sense of an open source CMS and also the talked about premium add-ons (which I feel are crucial to MODX user and contributor expansion). You need a critical mass of users to make the development of such things at least potentially financially viable.

        redtoad stated above "we had to decide if we were going to serve mom and pops or go after enterprise customers". 'Mom and pops' could bring that critical mass level of users but I really don't think that is where MODX sits best. Altering the product to cater for such users would probably mean compromising the inherent strengths of MODX.

        I think a critical mass user influx could be better achieved targeting the personal enthusiast market. People who now may use something like WordPress to develop personal sites, who are quite capable of a bit of hand coding and could be creating much better sites in MODX given a learning introduction through knowledge bases and tutorials. In my experience of talking to such people, WordPress or Joomla is used because it's a well known platform with lots of plugins to add the feature they want. They can build a site working in a reasonable (but sometimes compromised) way but when it comes to getting it to work in the exact way they would like, that means doing customisation to the CMS/plugin code which is rather complicated and inflexible and that it's beyond them. For this sort of user the flexibility of MODX would be perfect and enable them to create sites that work in the exact way they envision, BUT the initial learning curve is hindered by documentation that can be hard to pick through and understand for a newbie. The first MODX site is a slow process compared to other CMSs. That could be remedied for this type of user by an new style of documentation without compromising the strengths of the CMS by pandering to the plug and play type expectation. [ed. note: absent42 last edited this post 11 years, 1 month ago.]
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          I agree with Dan's point:

          I think a critical mass user influx could be better achieved targeting the personal enthusiast market. People who now may use something like WordPress to develop personal sites, who are quite capable of a bit of hand coding and could be creating much better sites in MODX given a learning introduction through knowledge bases and tutorials.

          That's why at least my first Ambassador Meetup will focus primarily on students. It will be hosted at the Art Institute of Portland and the entire Wordpress class will be there.
          http://devries.jp/blog/2013/03/10/be-part-of-portlands-first-modx-meetup/
            jpdevries
          • When I said that the Community needed to be developed, I need to clarify. The end user community needs to be developed. Not targeting developers, but targeting office managers, business owners and agencies. Just wanted to clarify that. And I disagree that mom and pop shops aren't good targets. A lot of them want the freedom and flexibility MODX offers and they have the confidence to work with it. Some of our more ambitious clients have gone nuts with the platform.

            They become enthusiasts.

            [ed. note: redtoad last edited this post 11 years, 1 month ago.]
              ________

              Anne
              Toad-in-Chief
              Red Toad Media - Web Design, Louisville KY
              Hear me tweet: http://www.twitter.com/redtoadmedia
              "Bring on the imperialistic condiments." - Rory Gilmore
            • siphonlabs.com - Hosting and management for Wordpress and MODX.

              http://siphonlabs.com

              screen shot attached.
                ________

                Anne
                Toad-in-Chief
                Red Toad Media - Web Design, Louisville KY
                Hear me tweet: http://www.twitter.com/redtoadmedia
                "Bring on the imperialistic condiments." - Rory Gilmore
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                Yup. Maybe I'm mistaken but I think Wordpress was made originally for personal blogs? Wait it still is. Wordpress gets a lot of their money from self hosting right? Maybe Lab Clouds already do this, but it makes me wonder if there's a market for free MODX hosting to let people create sites that don't need domain ownership.

                Quote from: redtoad at Mar 28, 2013, 11:22 PM
                When I said that the Community needed to be developed, I need to clarify. The end user community needs to be developed. Not targeting developers, but targeting office managers, business owners and agencies. Just wanted to clarify that. And I disagree that mom and pop shops aren't good targets. A lot of them want the freedom and flexibility MODX offers and they have the confidence to work with it. Some of our more ambitious clients have gone nuts with the platform.

                They become enthusiasts.

                  jpdevries
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                  Quote from: redtoad at Mar 28, 2013, 11:22 PM
                  And I disagree that mom and pop shops aren't good targets. A lot of them want the freedom and flexibility MODX offers and they have the confidence to work with it. Some of our more ambitious clients have gone nuts with the platform.

                  They become enthusiasts.


                  I was talking about 'mom and pop shops' wanting to build a website for themselves entirely off their own back with very basic knowledge.
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                    Also notice how much more visual weight the Wordpress logo is given than the MODX logo? It's not so much that Wordpress comes first that bothers me, you could argue MODX is "centered" but there's a visual bias here I really don't like. I can't believe I'm saying this but "make the logo bigger".

                    Quote from: redtoad at Mar 28, 2013, 11:35 PM
                    siphonlabs.com - Hosting and management for Wordpress and MODX.

                    http://siphonlabs.com

                    screen shot attached.
                      jpdevries
                    • You don't compete MODx vs Wordpress. It's about positioning in a niche.

                      Wordpress is for the small site that is okay with being sandboxed. Position it that way.

                      MODx made for developers and agencies so you can do whatever the hell you want to with it.

                      If I was MODx, I would start an education program on it. Kind of like the old Apple vs PC commercials. Scream and shout the benefits of MODx over (big name CMS here) and make that very visible. Differentiate and attract attention.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOvzGiheOM