MODX Core development team abandoning MODX development as 1st priority? Please read!

Quote from: easylancer at Mar 28, 2013, 10:02 AM

Many times have I asked why not start using other Components inside of MODX to lessen the time core devs spend on reinventing the wheel, this has not been received nicely by any member of the core dev team I have spoken to. Drupal has made this move as it free up the time of devs and also have a wider PHP community contributing to the core system now.

Funny fact, the same day we wonders about modx future, a known Joomla evangelist (Amy Stephen) praises Drupal for its 8th iteration (work in progress) on twitter which uses Symphony 2 components (and updated code conventions).
Given Drupal success, it's not like they don't have developpers not capable of making their own framework.
Joomla is building their own framework. But it's joomla, they have many developpers involved and it will use the same kinda facilities as Drupal 8 will (DI, namespaces, composer).

Where is Modx ? Modx Cloud is renamed to SiphonLabs and "hopefully", by increasing revenue streams, they could step up Modx CMS level in the future.

I don't blame the team to seek revenue stream, they do need to feed their families.
But as Silentwork pointed out, it may not be a bad idea to use 3rd party components as the CMS base. Other solutions are evolving fast, and Modx is losing some active supports because it does not evolve.

What will happen to Modx while SiphonLabs's growing ? Not much. That's where the problem lies

Quote from: lossendae at Mar 28, 2013, 05:07 PM

Quote from: easylancer at Mar 28, 2013, 10:02 AM

I don't blame the team to seek revenue stream, they do need to feed their families.
But as Silentwork pointed out, it may not be a bad idea to use 3rd party components as the CMS base. Other solutions are evolving fast, and Modx is losing some active supports because it does not evolve.

What will happen to Modx while SiphonLabs's growing ? Not much. That's where the problem lies

I think for me, this is the core of the issue: MODX CMS development is going to take back seat to the hosting development and I think we all know it. While I 100% respect the fact that the core team needs to be compensated and building a revenue stream to do that makes complete sense, MODX as a CMS will inevitably be developed at a much slower pace as a result. I don't have the answer to this problem, but I think it's something the MODX community needs to be aware of if they're going to invest their time and energy into this CMS: it's going to be slow going. Again, my goal is not to be critical here, but I think it's something that we all need to put on the table and actively discuss b/c this new direction James is taking MODX is going to effect us all.

Actually the future for the MODX team may be the cloud hosting toolset they’ve built.

It’s actually pretty good!

I don’t use it myself because I’ve got dedicated servers I’m contracted for, so I need to get my return on those, plus I like the freedom and flexibility that my own servers give me to install and integrate with what I want.

But for Wordpress type clients freedom to install and integrate may be less of an issue so the MODX Cloud toolkit is probably more desirable to this audience. MODX is only a tiny dot on the global CMS radar so it doesn’t make sense to restrict the MODX Cloud toolkit to just MODX, if the developers believe in the toolkit.

It’s perverse that they thought the path to riches was Cloud enabling MODX whereas it could well be that the path is instead Cloud enabling applications.

The problem is for those of us less interested in Cloud enabling toolkits and more concerned with the CMS.

Why have I got that same feeling I had after buying my Betamax video recorder …

Oh, and may as so bold as to ask to echo what others have been saying about the MODX.com homepage: can we get MODX back and put the Cloud advertisements on the MODX Cloud site? I just get the feeling that the cloud is now the focus of MODX

Rightfully so, but remember MODX Cloud set out to become a resource to help fund MODX to become the next big thing, rather than stay the best kept secret.

One thing I find myself wondering is how much is the SiphonLabs team going to prioritize developing Wordpress Cloud features over requested features such as script automation with CRON jobs (or something similar). I've got a handful of clients that were ready to move sites over the day that feature landed, when it was MODX Cloud at least.

Quote from: flinx777 at Mar 28, 2013, 06:02 PM

Oh, and may as so bold as to ask to echo what others have been saying about the MODX.com homepage: can we get MODX back and put the Cloud advertisements on the MODX Cloud site? I just get the feeling that the cloud is now the focus of MODX

My Main concern here is that being an ISP is a black hole of support issues, more so if you're successful. I've seen this with a number of ISPs. They get buried in support requests, then devote resources to creating a knowledge base and a moderated forum, which doesn't really help because the kind of users who need support don't use those resources.

In the end, either hiring qualified support staff eats up their profits, or their support goes to hell and the loss of users eats up their profits.

Quote from: BobRay at Mar 28, 2013, 07:30 PM

My Main concern here is that being an ISP is a black hole of support issues, more so if you're successful. I've seen this with a number of ISPs. They get buried in support requests, then devote resources to creating a knowledge base and a moderated forum, which doesn't really help because the kind of users who need support don't use those resources.

In the end, either hiring qualified support staff eats up their profits, or their support goes to hell and the loss of users eats up their profits.

Hi Bob,

I'm working with Ryan and Jay to try to put together some kind of interactive knowledge base. The driver behind this was that I've been working on a tool that can do this, and I wanted a good example of how it could be used. MODX seems like a perfect candidate to get this.

If it works, it would relieve the developers (and extremely generous people like you and Susan) from needing to answer the same basic questions over and over again. Even without the news of the change, the developers of MODX spend time answering forum posts which would be better spent on development efforts.

Regards,
Tom

You know it's funny. I wanted to start a modxbeginners.com site to help educate people about MODX and could not. I was told I couldn't use the name. I am not alone in that. But when I sat down for a beer with Otto from WordPress, and Rod and I asked him,"How'd you guys do this?" He said, "It was the community."

You guys need to partner with the community, and you have done some things to hinder that. In my opinion, some people haven't listened. You haven't gotten as much exposure as you could have because of it. I totally understand the need for cash flow. I do. But it was my understanding that you could go with the Magento model, offering Community and Enterprise level editions eventually. I thought that was a possible direction you were headed in. Did that change? Why did that change?

I am completely sympathetic to and supportive of the "core team" and want to help much more than I do. I think everyone here who has any concern for MODX needs to step up more. That includes me. I understand because our core team is two people too. Rough gig. I get it.

A few years ago we had to look at what we were doing and make changes too. We had to listen to what people told us. And we had to change how we did things. It's a good thing to do. But you can't do that without making some value choices. We had to do that. We had to decide if we were going to be a social media marketing company or a website/interactive design company. we had to decide if we were going to serve mom and pops or go after enterprise customers. I understand. We had to decide who we were. Growing pains.

We made those choices based on who we were. I think you're doing the same, but there are distinctly different visions of who you really are. I don't have a problem with either vision personally but I do -trust- one direction more than the other. And I also know that resistance comes against any great effort. I think you're allowing circumstance to mold you and I think you don't have to.

I think you have two different and distinct ideas on who you are. That's what it looks like from here.

It seems to me that you're saying flat out that MODX CMS can't make any money. I don't believe that. It hasn't yet. I'll grant you that. But 2 years is a miniscule amount of time to expect a company to succeed in. I'm sorry, but it is. Maybe you guys -all- need to focus on what you do well, working together instead of dividing your efforts and stick to the original vision. Cook with recipes that work. Let us (the community) publish with the name and expose it. Do Enterprise editions of the system. Gee. Cloud already could be that. And hire some sales people who understand your system and this industry and have the best interests of MODX at heart. Oh wait. You wouldn't have to. The Community could do it.

just my two cents. I am and will be praying for the -entire team.- [ed. note: redtoad last edited this post 11 years, 1 month ago.]

The only way Revolution will slow down while SiphonLabs is growing is if we all act like its impossible to keep Revolution going without Shaun's full attention (which hasn't been towards Revolution the last 8 months). Maybe we are going to lose attention for a few other core developers, I'm not sure.

My point is the community (myself included) needs to start putting our Pull Requests where our mouths are. Because yes if we don't, SiphonLabs may or may not succeed and Revolution may become the software that could of been.

For example, I've been working with Jason to make some Articles improvements lately. So far nothing to write home about, just a few bug fixes but I could really use some help.

I'm not just talking about coding either. In fact some of the areas I feel help is needed the most are bug reporting, testing, feedback and input on further defining the roadmap.

Why not asking for a 5$ or 10$-donation at the download (-> and for motivation, you can add the newly created modx-website with rel follow, a ascreenshot and a small description to a catalogue of MODX-made websites on modx.com for your donation ---- or someting like that)?

I think a professional user (who creates a MODX-based website for a client or for his company) will pay that very small fee to support MODX - and gets also a benefit for the project by receiving the possibility to add the page to the modx-webcatalogue. And if someone don't want to pay, it's also okay... but if there are some who donates because they love MODX and want to give something back (they earned while developing the site to earn money for theirselfs) it defently better than nothing.

I defenetly would pay that donation.

Just my idea, to get a better (and community-friendly/driven) cashflow which can help to pay core-developers for the MODX CMS.

What do you all think about that?