We launched new forums in March 2019—join us there. In a hurry for help with your website? Get Help Now!
    • 54358
    • 26 Posts
    So I saw the update about the new editor today. What are your thoughts?

    I'm first of all curious, but I'd also like to know if it's "safe" to jump on the bandwagon (with the project I'm currently working on) or if I should ignore it and do things the old fashioned way (which I'm currently trying to figure out how to actually do).

    (Also, is it a all-or-nothing kinda thing or is it possible to use FRED and then still change small things behind the scenes (aka. code a language switcher in a snippet e.g.)?) [ed. note: wyrdling last edited this post 5 years, 9 months ago.]
      • 17301
      • 932 Posts
      Fred is mind blowing. I've just created a rough quick start guide video which I'll post the link here once it's finished rendering/uploading.

      From my own tests though it seems very solid so I wouldn't personally hesitate to jump into production with it, but do so at your own risk of course. Fred does work with multiple contexts, but it'll depend on your method of creating a multi language site.
        ■ email: [email protected] | ■ website: https://alienbuild.uk

        The greatest compliment you can give back to us, is to spend a few seconds leaving a rating at our trustpilot: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/alienbuild.uk about the service we provided. We always drop mention of services offered by businesses we've worked with in the past to those of interest.
        • 17301
        • 932 Posts
          ■ email: [email protected] | ■ website: https://alienbuild.uk

          The greatest compliment you can give back to us, is to spend a few seconds leaving a rating at our trustpilot: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/alienbuild.uk about the service we provided. We always drop mention of services offered by businesses we've worked with in the past to those of interest.
          • 3749
          • 24,544 Posts
          Very impressive! wink
            Did I help you? Buy me a beer
            Get my Book: MODX:The Official Guide
            MODX info for everyone: http://bobsguides.com/modx.html
            My MODX Extras
            Bob's Guides is now hosted at A2 MODX Hosting
            • 42562
            • 1,145 Posts
            Fred is a solid step in the right direction. Thumbs up!
              TinymceWrapper: Complete back/frontend content solution.
              Harden your MODX site by passwording your three main folders: core, manager, connectors and renaming your assets (thank me later!)
              5 ways to sniff / hack your own sites; even with renamed/hidden folders, burst them all up, to see how secure you are not.
            • If you want something that's been around a little longer, ContentBlocks is pretty stable wink Fred and CB are not compatible however as Fred actually disables ContentBlocks..

              As MODX is going after the same thing ContentBlocks has been doing for years, I would also be interested in hearing how people would compare the two products. I'm obviously biased towards ContentBlocks and have a commercial interest there, but I am genuinely eager to learn what people find most interesting about Fred.

              Based on my own testing so far, here's what I think each do better:

              Things Fred does better:
              - Front-end editing.
              - More modern visuals. CB looks more like the manager itself, which is a little more dated, and it's not quite as visual as content is shown in fields most of the time, instead of as how it is rendered.
              - The responsive preview is a nice touch for users to see how their content looks on other screen sizes.
              - Free.
              - Cute logo.

              Things ContentBlocks does better:
              - Stricter separation of content and markup. In Fred, all content only seems to be stored in the content field with no separate data structure. I think this will make evolving your markup while keeping the same content more difficult because it's tied together.
              - Repeater. Defines a structure that you add rows off. Ensures consistency in design and markup. I've not looked into custom elements/plugins for Fred too much, so maybe something like that is coming.
              - Back-end editing. Fred only works in the front-end.
              - Unlimited support included in purchase.

              While front-end editing is a definite "win" for Fred, I'm personally not a fan of front-end editing. It gives you two very different contexts to do things in. While managing the site content would be in the frontend, you'd have to hop back into the manager to manage FAQs or your shop orders for example.

              TVs are also harder to use from non-manager (non-ExtJS) editing experiences, which is something I learned when building HandyMan. As you can't use the existing code to run those, replacements for each one of those need to be built into the core, and as custom TV input types are a thing, that can get challenging... not sure what Fred will do about that as it does seem to have some basic resource fields included, or if you'll need to hop back into the manager to edit TV values.


              I also wonder how the LLC will fund ongoing development and support for Fred. The site mentions premium plugins for Fred will come, but if the core plugin covers most types of content and if fred is indeed extendable, would they be able of selling enough to make it all worth their while? Or maybe there are plans to sell commercial support packs if you want to get help from people that know how it works? Either way, at some point Fred will have to start generating some revenue for the LLC if they want to support something as complex as a visual content builder for years to come...


              I'm also frustrated that while the community works together on MODX3, the LLC decides to shift their focus to Fred. They failed to deliver on their commitment to the MODX3 project, putting in about 40% less hours than what they promised. Imagine if the 700 hours they spent on fred was spent on MODX3, how much more we could have achieved there... I think the entire MODX3 project was estimated at about 500 hours, so that would've doubled the available effort! It also stings that there has not yet been a single acknowledgment by the LLC of the MODX3 alpha build that the MODX3 project team released two weeks ago, yet socials are lit up with pictures of Ryan's dog and teasers leading up to the announcement. There's a snapshot of Fred available in Cloud, but no MODX3 build last I checked...


              (As an aside, @Liam, I can definitely imagine Redactor will support Fred when we release v3 of that. I'll look into that in the next couple of weeks as Fred stabilizes and (hopefully) some docs on extending it become available.)
                Mark Hamstra • Developer spending his days working on Premium Extras and a MODX Site Dashboard with the ability to remotely upgrade MODX and extras to make the MODX world a little better.

                Tweet me @mark_hamstra, check my infrequent blog at markhamstra.com, my slightly more frequent ramblings at MODX.today or see code at Github.
                • 17301
                • 932 Posts
                Thanks Mark - Great news to hear about redactor support for front-end smiley

                I was also curious about your stance on Fred considering content blocks. I wasn't sure if you had any input or development involvement on Fred at all.

                You do raise some good points with the pros and cons of each. To me the biggest advantage that Fred has over Content Blocks is that the content editor can see the component and edit it by clicking on it. Content blocks is great but having a multitude of fields and a potential preview above that is not the greatest UX when compared with Fred, but far superior than anything that came before! Site developers can keep users out of the manager depending on the project. I'm not a fan of users going into the manager because of how slow and unfriendly it is, despite the MODX3 UI improvements. It also becomes a second task, that is very limiting and labourous, in terms of branding and customising the look and feel of the manager.

                I agree that some sites or instances may require the user to go back into the manager to manage FAQs or shop orders like you suggested. However, in theory we could create a front end page, or settings block, only accessible to content editors that has a form to update global settings, faqs, and other components with a hook. #hacky?

                Content Blocks:

                - Repeater
                - Flexibility (I haven't really given Fred a fair chance on this one yet but I think that Content Blocks will win on creating more complex sites such as sites that are full page multi directional slides, or presentations or other specialist requirements)
                - Developer Friendly
                - Support

                FRED:

                - More User Friendly / Front End Editing
                - Branding
                - Price

                Both are great products and I think both are project dependent.
                  ■ email: [email protected] | ■ website: https://alienbuild.uk

                  The greatest compliment you can give back to us, is to spend a few seconds leaving a rating at our trustpilot: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/alienbuild.uk about the service we provided. We always drop mention of services offered by businesses we've worked with in the past to those of interest.
                  • 42562
                  • 1,145 Posts
                  Just to piggishly clarify..., in my own little way ... before some new visitor gets innocently carried away.

                  This is part of what I am thinking of Fred (the other part is in the cooler)

                  Content Blocking is a concept. Plugins/Extensions/Extras implement the concept merely.
                  No one Extra pretends to have monopoly in the matter.

                  In MODX though, things arrive way later than sooner. Fair enough, it's an opensource project!
                  A quick search in google will show that WordPress is choking full with contentblock plugins.
                  Try "top 5", or "top 50" in your search criteria. I'll save some the hassle...
                  https://blog.templatetoaster.com/best-wordpress-page-builders/


                  Two years ago I presented Structures, here is a link in case someone innocently missed it.
                  https://github.com/donShakespeare/Structures
                  https://modx.com/extras/package/structures

                  And although Structures is not yet usable in the frontend, its brother, TinyMagicPublisher is used to create or edit a resource as, in place, in the frontend. It piggybacks on Bob Ray's NewsPublisher. Go check it out, it is currently packed with the current TinymceWrapper 2yr-old plugin. Soon to be presented as a standalone Extra.

                  Now Structures, is based on my script, TinyBlocks.js (which will be joining TinymceWrapper v3).
                  It attempted to implement the concept called content blocking. And in this vain, you might see glaring similarities with Fred.

                  BUT, earlier in this thread I said:
                  Fred is a solid step in the right direction. Thumbs up!

                  Despite the politics within or without Fred (who knows? as politics goes), it is a solid step in the right direction.
                  Why right direction? MODX needs a lot more variety in whatever concepts its plugins are trying to implement.
                  Yes, variety causes confusion, but no variety causes ahem ahem.

                  That said, do I like Fred? (different thread for that).
                  Do I think MODX should be like WP and have 50 more content blocking plugins? Hey why not, go for it!!!!!!

                    TinymceWrapper: Complete back/frontend content solution.
                    Harden your MODX site by passwording your three main folders: core, manager, connectors and renaming your assets (thank me later!)
                    5 ways to sniff / hack your own sites; even with renamed/hidden folders, burst them all up, to see how secure you are not.
                  • I was also curious about your stance on Fred considering content blocks. I wasn't sure if you had any input or development involvement on Fred at all.
                    I've had no input and was not part of the development, and would not have known it was even coming if someone in the community hadn't given me a heads up when they received a private demo a couple of weeks ago.


                    I'm not a fan of users going into the manager because of how slow and unfriendly it is, despite the MODX3 UI improvements. It also becomes a second task, that is very limiting and labourous, in terms of branding and customising the look and feel of the manager.

                    I agree that some sites or instances may require the user to go back into the manager to manage FAQs or shop orders like you suggested. However, in theory we could create a front end page, or settings block, only accessible to content editors that has a form to update global settings, faqs, and other components with a hook. #hacky?

                    Gee, that almost sounds like you're looking for a completely new manager that is faster, more user-friendly, and probably doesn't need ExtJS! If only there was, say, 700 hours extra available for the MODX3 project, we could have actually considered making some real progress on the plan that exists for making that happen.

                    Content Blocking is a concept. Plugins/Extensions/Extras implement the concept merely. No one Extra pretends to have monopoly in the matter.

                    Just to clarify, I'm not trying to claim a monopoly, and in general welcome the competition to keep me sharp and innovating. Structures included. ContentBlocks draws inspiration from many content builders for other systems, some for WordPress, but with a MODX twist to it, and Structures has inspired some early scribbles for v2 as well. Fred will have an impact on ContentBlocks v2 as well and is already acting as an encouragement to finish that sooner rather than later.

                    However, that the LLC has their priorities so messed up that they spend 700 (!!) hours on Fred while everyone else is rallying to get MODX3 off the ground and then has the nerve to suggest it was inspired by the work they were doing MODX3, that does leave me with a bad taste...
                      Mark Hamstra • Developer spending his days working on Premium Extras and a MODX Site Dashboard with the ability to remotely upgrade MODX and extras to make the MODX world a little better.

                      Tweet me @mark_hamstra, check my infrequent blog at markhamstra.com, my slightly more frequent ramblings at MODX.today or see code at Github.
                      • 42562
                      • 1,145 Posts
                      But that 700 hours though, it got me looking for where it was documented... and I found it.
                      This is probably what you have been referencing ... from the fred website

                      After more than 700 hours we are happy to privately announce Fred, the friendly editor. Fred is a free open source MODX Extra that works with version 2.6 and above. Fred’s user interface is based on the outstanding work of the MODX3.org project and surpasses the capabilities of any visual content builder on any platform.

                      whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      And here I rest my pen, and quit developing, for ever.

                      So this was a project from the MODX3 Team ?
                        TinymceWrapper: Complete back/frontend content solution.
                        Harden your MODX site by passwording your three main folders: core, manager, connectors and renaming your assets (thank me later!)
                        5 ways to sniff / hack your own sites; even with renamed/hidden folders, burst them all up, to see how secure you are not.