Community Concerns

I can only talk from my perspective. As a user, as an ambassador and as an early boyfriend of Mrs MODX. So I make a list of things in general, specific and abstract whereever possible.

• MODX must be pregnant. She's moody, her behavior is not predictable. I cant guess what issues will be on the table the next month.
• I still love her like on the first day we met. She is still the person I knew, although she has grown. I know that.
• If I introduce her to my friends or clients, they immediately like her.
• We get along well, apart from some deeper findings that drive me crazy. Specificly: permissions. I dont know how to have her let me do different things. You need to be a neuro scientist to make her agree or obey. Or You trick her into doing it.
• Sometimes, I wish she was simpler. Up to a certain level, she is really brilliant. But when you scratch the surface, its getting complicated. I wish her parents would help me with that, as they know her best.
• When she is acting strange, her uncle Bob and aunt Susan (different family branches) try and help with the conversation. They do a great job, but they cant fix everything.
• The older she gets, the stanger her behavior becomes.
• Since some time now, whe is asking me if I really want to leave when I touch the exit. She must think I dont know when I want to go.
• On the other hand, she cant tell me whats wrong with the flat we live in. She didnt say anything when we moved in, but sometime she wont let me enter a room or so. Her diary doesnt say anything about it (I checked the last time), but I have the feeling its not a big deal. I just cant figure it out.
• About that diary: every time we have our differences, I burn it accidentally in the act of trying to fix things. Why did she put it there in the first place?
• If I met her today for the first time, I'd be impressed, but also kind of stressed. When we talk, she answers very slowly compared to other women or when she was younger.

Ok, I am getting confused with the analogies now

What do we have?
- a very fine piece of software
- some documentation
- some company, maintaining the core of the software

What do we miss? Speaking for myself:
- A clear and reliable structure like "LLC -> core + infrastructure + contributors helpdesk, Community -> extras + support"
- 2 class extras: only packages which meet the requirements make it into the main repository (rtfm + support thread in the forums)

What do we need for that?
- centralized data (one login for rtfm and forums)
- find the way back to the way that makes MODX unique
- make a list of extras or features which we miss (like "Create limited users with 2 clicks" or so)

The lists are not complete, but this is how I would start if MODX was mine from now on.

We have so many great community members. Some are good with strategy, some like tuning performance, some like hardening, some like new features, some like making things less complicated. Some can code like hell but have lost the big picture. Some can see the big picture, but cant code well.

Concering the business: its important for some ppl to make a living of maintaining the MODX core. Like it is for others to make a living of using it. "We" could start a process that would start in public polls in the forums. "Extra of the month" or so. "Concept of the Month" and "Feature of the month". If it (the winner) is not written yet, LLC could start crowdfunding it. So the best and most wanted features would become real and ppl with more ideas that skills can get their concept into reality. And: it would bring the active community AND users back to the forums.

A last thing is important to me: LLC must not be silent. If its the core team, its the leader of the herd. Talk, ask, have an own thread in the forums concering "core and community talk". Get back into the center.

Cheers,

Guido [ed. note: gallenkamp last edited this post 12 years, 4 months ago.]

Quote from: gallenkamp at May 13, 2014, 06:14 AM

We have so many great community members. Some are good with strategy, some like tuning performance, some like hardening, some like new features, some like making things less complicated. Some can code like hell but have lost the big picture. Some can see the big picture, but cant code well.

Concering the business: its important for some ppl to make a living of maintaining the MODX core. Like it is for others to make a living of using it. "We" could start a process that would start in public polls in the forums. "Extra of the month" or so. "Concept of the Month" and "Feature of the month". If it (the winner) is not written yet, LLC could start crowdfunding it. So the best and most wanted features would become real and ppl with more ideas that skills can get their concept into reality. And: it would bring the active community AND users back to the forums.

Exactly what I was thinking when reading this thread! A system where the community could crowdfund missing features would be so helpful and I'm sure that would also help to focus on the things the MODX users and developers need the most! How to make something like that real? Maybe also some of the ideas from my post over here https://forums.modx.com/thread/83497/modx-core-development-team-abandoning-modx-please-read?page=11#dis-post-462031 could find their way into such a system, so it wouldn't only be a crowdfunding feature list, but also a subscriber list for extra developers... [ed. note: exside last edited this post 12 years, 4 months ago.]

Interesting how this thread dies off without comment from the perceived owners of MODX. I.e. Without the necessary leadership the community feels stuck.

Highlights the need for said leadership, and possibly it's absence :-(

Great idea's here and very good to have this discussion.
As a long time MODX sponsor and having a business that depends for a large part on the succes off MODX, I would love to hear more from MODX about this and how they see the future of MODX.

Most who are speaking up are seasoned veterans with MODX. Want to hear a bit from a fresh pair of eyes?

Walking in the door, it was hard to decide between Evo and Revo. I was told Evo was faster, leaner, fine for small sites, and had a phpbb bridge that Revo didn't... so I went with it. Not too much later, it became evident that all the development was in Revo, not Evo. bla bla bla... conclusion: These are 2 different products with only limited crossover of some Extras. Maybe the site should actually be divided between Evo and Revo - once you "pick yer poison", you only need to see related material to your chosen platform. Anything more is only confusing.

I assume, as with most open source stuff, that users' input is central to the development pathway for the platform. As in, "the users said these are the 10 most important new features, so we are working on those 10 new features PLUS some stuff the dev team wants to do" (and those things are listed.) Shouldn't committing to a platform include being kept aware of the overall direction?

If there are many (some threshold number) downloads of an "Extra", then shouldn't that automatically trigger the dev team to add that functionality to the core? If you can think of reasons why that is not true, then at least: when a threshold number of downloads on an Extra occurs, shouldn't that be a trigger to the dev team that the Extra belongs in a special grouping of Extras that at least get a cursory test by the dev team, awarded a gold star, and be listed somehow as having been tested - and passed? Otherwise, you'll get a newbie like me walking in the door and spending 100 hours trying to get an Extra to work - that simply does not work - but is convinced it has to be the newbie's own fault.

I don't have the "MODX streetwise" perspective many of you have; I have the perspective of a newbie, so maybe what I have faced seems minor in comparison. But if I didn't have a VERY understanding customer for my first MODX site (a non-profit that already has a working site), I would have been forced to abandon MODX when the first Extra did not work and I could find no real solutions.

Quote from: Askarii at May 09, 2014, 01:01 PM

...This could come out as harsh, but people complain. And the worst case is people who complain and do nothing to fix the situation. MODX is opensource, if you want "quality" updates and progress, pitch in, contribute. Don't just complain and wait for MODX LLC to "invest" their time and money, they too have priorities that are not necessarily the platform itself.
This answer also applies to the features/extras question.

Later, I hope to be able to add to the code, but I'm nowhere near ready. People at this level can be "testers", and when testers find problems, the information is not really a "complaint" unless done in a complaining tone. Testers need to test and report back. It is a critical piece of moving forward.

Thanks,

Dennis

Dennis, welcome to MODX.

Good points.

The MODX philosophy has generally been to not add extras to the core if the extra works fine as an extra. That keeps MODX lean and mean, and people who need a particular extra can easily add it.

With respect to Evo and Revo, the intention is to have MODX 3 replace both so there will only be one product and one set of docs. It may be a while before this happens, however.

I agree to a lot of concerns here. All in all I can say that the LLC lost my trust in the last time. Inexplicable decisions and no clear direction and late communication (where this thread is the best proof). Most things about the LLC seem to "closed" for an open source project. Since my business is placed around MODX, the future of MODX is really important to me.

I absolutely love Marks idea about a foundation / MODX.org with a board-member group and all that open and democratic stuff. I'm already donating 99$/month to MODX through the professional program and would love to donate this to a open foundation.

Quote from: shorewalker at May 12, 2014, 11:01 PM

We all feel we have a stake in MODX, and we do. The project's leaders should communicate, and they do. The project should continue to grow, and it does.

To be fair, i have the feeling that modmore is much more active and actually help modx grow better than the very sporadic official team and channel anouncements.
And while modmore is making some awesome 3rd party features, modx core is lagging behind for years now.

The Russian community is extremely active as well, but the language barrier makes it difficult for their activity to impact the rest of us.

I must admit I am worried about this. I feel very uncertain about the future development, even as I commit more to the platform.

Modules which were released over a year ago are still not cleaned up, documentation is still sparse, and there seems to be little support from the community. The developers are off making version 2.0, yet 1.0 is still very rough. Will they even commit to 2.0 for a significant period of time so i can rely on that? Or will they go running off to make *3.0, because that's more fun than the hard work of fixing and extending 2.0. I hope I will get the support I need, but I don't know that.

There is a basic requirement to pull users and developers in, and if that requirement is satisfied, then the community can develop. From my perspective, there has been a lot of development of the community over the last several years, but it needs to be said, this requirement is a must. I have been using modx for about 5 years, changed user names once. I think there was a migration, my handle of 'dun' turned into 'd_u_n.' :-D So I let it go.

For me, I am carrying out a business plan, and if I can get the project up and running, there will be opportunities to partner with others in the community, I could pay for support and development as the project matures.

However, if I can't get to square one without calling a professional to fix stuff I just shouldn't have to deal with, then its just a non-starter, I will go with one of the other, easier platforms. That's the conflict of interest mentioned in the original post.

Still, it must be admitted that every community will have periods like this. The LLC doesn't have some amazing PR department, and is made up of personalities, which sometimes leads to clashes. I certainly hope that HR issues are handled more professionally in the future, and I would warn against strong personalities turning the project into a fiefdom. For example, I am agast at what M. Shuttlesworth has done to Ubuntu, they have turned 180 degrees away from user freedom in the last several years. For him, its all about his "vision", which means we are all just drones to be dictated to. But, let me get off my soapbox.

As I mentioned above, I have seen a lot of development of the community. And I am still committed, but I am not very comfortable in this commitment, and will be looking hard at the potential of the platform next time I have to implement a new solution, which for me won't be for 1-2 years, fortunately.

I like the foundation idea, too. A repository of knowledge and other resources could be very powerful.