Community Concerns

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 07:44 AM

No, i was talking about custom posts which is the equivalent ou custom resource type in Modx, and can (end is) extended in theme and/or plugins.

Now, the way to do it is too often SUPER messy, but it is flexible. Without hacking.

We can (and definitively should) talk about WP without being too proud. There are good things to learn from it.

even using custom post types or custom fields (the more or less equivalent to MODX' TVs) WP is no match to the flexibilty (both backend and frontend) a framework like MODX offers.
It's not that I'm looking down on WP. In fact it's a well done tool and serves well for the purpose of many smaller projects.
Plus they have very decent docs and good communication. Which leads us back to the original topic

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 07:07 AM

Doesn't it depends how we view Modx ?

I didn't like MODX 2 (Revo) in the beginning. I compared it to windows vista. That is because back then the browsers were slower (and the mgr js needed some serious compression). Today MODX 2 is pure awesomeness. It has finally challenged MODX 1 (Evo)
I've personally made the step towards MODX 2 thanks to 3 people: Bob Ray, Susan Ottwell and Jeroen Kenters WHO ALL ARE SHARING CODE = OPEN SOURCE CONTRIBUTORS + they don't code and leave but explains for people how to use it. THAT IS AWESOME.

What is WP? ---> https://www.augmentblu.co.uk/blog-it/modx-apps/2014/05/19/blucart-back-end-demo-launched/

Then a thread "community concerns" is born where people _rightfully complain_ on leadership, isolation and lack of visions. MODX Lead Developer meets the mob and agrees to fair criticism. But the mob wants blood. Some have a manifesto and they want answer NOW when they are many, together in a group and it's "fresh in their memory".... Ok, it wasn't a Coup d'état.

But then ANARCHY takes over the mob itself and people want everything to burn. Some argue lets burn the city hall, other think the roads suck and a third wants a new language to be spoken...

For me MODX 2 is MODX 1 and everything MODX 1 couldn't do.

---> IS MODX 3 composer, angular, symphony (bla bla)????

NO. MODX 3 is MODX 2 and everything MODX 2 couldn't do. REVO IS IN IT'S PRIME TIME!! RIGHT NOW.

LEARN HOW IT GOT THIS AWESOME and make the journey shorter for MODX 3.

Want to sell something to the community - show proof of concept and make people talk about it. Make it open source and free to download without a forced donation. Sell the same code 100% times improved for your daily bread.

That is my full view.

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 07:07 AM

Bad example, Backdrop CMS is born because Drupal 8 is breaking appart Drupal to make it better using Symfony components.

Man, I really ain't hear much about it. [ed. note: mrhaw last edited this post 12 years, 3 months ago.]

Forgive my ignorance but what are other Content Management Systems such as ProcessWire, Craft and Expression Engine "built on"?

Every time a discussion about MODX 3.0 begins, there's lots of caution about binding MODX to a JS framework. I'm not a developer so I was wondering if other CMS suffer the same problem or is there some reason MODX has these growing pains.

Quote from: mrhaw at Jun 04, 2014, 09:28 AM

Want to sell something to the community - show proof of concept and make people talk about it. Make it open source and free to download without a forced donation. Sell the same code 100% times improved for your daily bread.

You should not be afraid of technical words. But I can understand your reaction.

Quote from: mrhaw at Jun 04, 2014, 09:28 AM

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 07:07 AM

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 07:07 AM

Bad example, Backdrop CMS is born because Drupal 8 is breaking appart Drupal to make it better using Symfony components.

Man, I really ain't hearing much about it.

It has been mentionned in this thread.

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 09:35 AM

You should not be afraid of technical words. But I can understand your reaction.

If the community can't put a proof of concept together but only it's lead developers. Then the community needs to be more thankful.

If the community can put a proof of concept together but it's being fought by it's lead developers, Shaun pointed out the code is GPL.

I don't know what code would be better and trust Shaun's list to be top notch supreme. But would it take us 5 years before that product could be launched? Everybody with those skills and time to invest making it REAL - RAISE YOUR HANDS!!

Quote from: eladnova at Jun 04, 2014, 09:33 AM

Forgive my ignorance but what are other Content Management Systems such as ProcessWire, Craft and Expression Engine "built on"?

Every time a discussion about MODX 3.0 begins, there's lots of caution about binding MODX to a JS framework. I'm not a developer so I was wondering if other CMS suffer the same problem or is there some reason MODX has these growing pains.

Expression Engine is built with Code Igniter.
Craft with Yii.
ProcessWire with its own framework.
Drupal is going with Symfony.
PyroCMS was Code igniter but it is transitioning slowly to Laravel.

Quote from: lossendae at Jun 04, 2014, 09:48 AM

Expression Engine is built with Code Igniter.
Craft with Yii.
ProcessWire with its own framework.
Drupal is going with Symfony.
PyroCMS was Code igniter but it is transitioning slowly to Laravel.

Think the question was about JS frameworks. Just looked it up for the ones I still use.
Craft: seems to be rolling their own library. Lots of jQuery/jQuery UI too.
ProcessWire: Also jQuery + UI

Quote from: mrhaw at Jun 04, 2014, 09:28 AM

I've personally made the step towards MODX 2 thanks to 3 people: Bob Ray, Susan Ottwell and Jeroen Kenters WHO ALL ARE SHARING CODE = OPEN SOURCE CONTRIBUTORS + they don't code and leave but explains for people how to use it. THAT IS AWESOME.

My name next to Bob and Susan? Must have done something right

Quote from: mrhaw at Jun 04, 2014, 09:28 AM

But then ANARCHY takes over the mob itself and people want everything to burn. Some argue lets burn the city hall, other think the roads suck and a third wants a new language to be spoken...

Trying to follow your analogy here. It's too early to start redesigning the city. We first need a government in place that can tell us what needs to change and when. And which can actually lead that redesign project, because it is in fact necessary to break apart a few things. But let's do so one step at a time before everyone starts working on the same thing again.

From what I can figure out, which isn't much, MODX 3.0 is currently vapourware (yeah we spell it with a 'U' over here), so I'm not sure why it is even being discussed but in terms of the manager interface there are undeniable usability wins to be gained from a well implemented JS framework and we should be building for users, not ourselves.

I favour Ember for this job as there is an 'Ember way' which would bring consistency to the code base before adding any coding style guides (though these should be in place too) so maintaining/supporting others' code becomes a lot easier. Previous talk last year of doing this kind of stuff in JQuery really only highlights Shaun's point about the technical capabilities of the architects. Framework Lock in can of course be an issue with any choice but I think it is fair to say that the problem with ExtJS wasn't so much the lock in as it was being locked in to ExtJS - there is a big and important distinction here that people should ponder between the two. Also if you have a clear architectural vision and good routing, future ports become more achievable without starting from scratch - it's another separation of concerns matter. Also, continuing to develop our own ORM is madness - akin to building our own version of JQuery.

Having said all that, I agree the discussion needs to get back on the topic of the future of the 2.X codebase and who drives future development. I'm now returning to my old stomping ground of beating the drum for in-manager updates - preferably not an over-engineered solution involving git or anything that shared hosting is unlikely to have as those are the folks that need this facility most.

Quote from: jeroenkenters at Jun 04, 2014, 10:34 AM

Trying to follow your analogy here. It's too early to start redesigning the city. We first need a government in place that can tell us what needs to change and when. And which can actually lead that redesign project, because it is in fact necessary to break apart a few things. But let's do so one step at a time before everyone starts working on the same thing again.

MODX Evolution, MODX Revolution and now MODX Constitution!!

If I wrote it:

§1 FREEDOM: You decide how much of MODX (language) You want to inject into Your code.
§2 OOP/PATTERN: Total separation between client-side and server-side code (roads).
§3 OPEN-SOURCE: GPL (city hall)
§4 MANAGER: How awesome if the city was built on jQuery.
//Ok that shouldn't be a rule...

[ed. note: mrhaw last edited this post 12 years, 3 months ago.]