We launched new forums in March 2019—join us there. In a hurry for help with your website? Get Help Now!
    • 10189
    • 109 Posts
    My colleague just made a post on his blog (456 Berea Street) asking about open source CMS:es. Two systems are in focus; MODx and Drupal. The problem right now, from looking at the comments is that Drupal is getting an overwhelming majority of exposure while MODx doesn not. This is probably due to MODx being less well known. So I’d like to ask any one of you to provide some good arguments for MODx in the comments.

    Why don’t I do this myself, you may ask? I would, but I feel that I lack the knowledge to provide compelling arguments, so an expert is really needed. smiley I know that MODx is a really good CMS/CMF, this just needs some extra exposure and my colleagues blog is a good starting point, since it is pretty well visited.

    http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200802/looking_for_open_source_cms_and_portal_software_options/
      • 27708 MODX Staff
      • 2,502 Posts
      I think that you should review some more of the comments on Roger’s blog. I and a few other MODxers have posted additional responses there. Drupal is a very mature CMS with 100000s of users worldwide. What I would recommend is that you try to build a site in Drupal and Build one in MODx and see which you like. Drupal is not the worst CMS out there and there is lots of documentation.

      My personal belief is that MODx does what I want the way I want it to and is more flexible than an elastic band in boiling water. BUT, for some users that flexibility can be overwhelming and confusing because they don’t know where to start and what parts to put where. If they stick it out and play with the demo site install you will quickly see the way is your way. It is real web design and development not constant hacking and trying to jam the square peg into the round hole.

      Cheers,

      Jay
        Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub
        • 10189
        • 109 Posts
        Quote from: smashingred at Feb 07, 2008, 08:00 AM

        I think that you should review some more of the comments on Roger’s blog. I and a few other MODxers have posted additional responses there.
        I have been watching closely all day. smiley

        Quote from: smashingred at Feb 07, 2008, 08:00 AM

        Drupal is a very mature CMS with 100000s of users worldwide. What I would recommend is that you try to build a site in Drupal and Build one in MODx and see which you like. Drupal is not the worst CMS out there and there is lots of documentation.
        I have been building sites in Drupal (as well as MODx and many other systems). The way Drupal works and the very confusing documentation online made me dislike it very much.

        Quote from: smashingred at Feb 07, 2008, 08:00 AM

        My personal belief is that MODx does what I want the way I want it to and is more flexible than an elastic band in boiling water. BUT, for some users that flexibility can be overwhelming and confusing because they don’t know where to start and what parts to put where. If they stick it out and play with the demo site install you will quickly see the way is your way. It is real web design and development not constant hacking and trying to jam the square peg into the round hole.
        I have seen the light when it comes to MODx, yet I haven’t had the fortune to use it in a real project yet due to time constraints. There seems to be a mistrust against MODx among some people. A mistrust that I believe is misplaced. I’d like to thank those that stepped up and added some very compelling and well founded arguments on Roger’s blog. smiley
          • 27708 MODX Staff
          • 2,502 Posts
          Quote from: frippz at Feb 07, 2008, 08:08 AM

          ... There seems to be a mistrust against MODx among some people. A mistrust that I believe is misplaced. I’d like to thank those that stepped up and added some very compelling and well founded arguments on Roger’s blog. smiley

          I am not sure where the mistrust is. I would argue that unfamiliarity breeds fear and many people hate to change. I personally love to change. I am currently learning how to use MODx in Subversion (tricky with the DB). I think that once 0.9.7 comes out in Beta focus will be shifted to redesigning the MODx site, information organization and possibly someone (or some people) in the community will step up and put together a real hold-in-your-hand book (anyone interested?).

          I think that in good time as the dust settles on 0.9.7 and the documentation and marketing material for MODx becomes more streamlined it will shine as the wonderful app that its founders intended.

          All the best,

          Jay

            Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub
            • 17802
            • 190 Posts
            I’m a regular visitor to Roger’s blog so I replied there before I even saw your message smiley
            Actually I’m (pleasantly) surprised at the amount of comments in favour of MODx. I thought MODx was less well-known!
              Thanks for MODx - I love it!
              • 6726
              • 7,075 Posts
              MODx is not unknown, it’s just known by the early adopter type who frequently happen to be more open minded and are not short on skills... and that’s just the way we need it right now. Marketing has pretty much been relying on MODx evangelists and self appointed emissaries so far and that’s just natural. In due time, we’ll jump to the next phase and get the guns out.

              But that will mean having a marketing team, obviously I am just like anyone I can’t handle things all by myself especially since I am pretty tied up with work at the moment. Plus, I am really more of an evangelist type than a real marketer with the skills which are attached to it (Jay would certainly make a great addition to the team - so much so that I thought he was ! Note to self : make it happen !). Setting up a marketing team would be beneficial since it’s very important to bounce ideas to get creative (at least for me). Zi and Ryan have helped a lot but everyone can only commit to so many task at once tongue

              Anyway, this kind of talk about MODx on key blogs is really a good thing for us !
              And our advocates are pretty good, from reading those comments grin

              I had bookmarked a few threads on the forums that are very interresting from a marketing perspective, one of those is MODx as a business weapon


              If you want some additionnal marketing material, here is something I wrote a while back, which is know as the "elevator pitch draft" (probably needs updating, and a much shorter version too. Most definitely a cleaning of obscure MODx lingo to translate into english tongue) :

              Quote from: davidm at Apr 12, 2006, 11:43 AM

              MODx is not ’yet another content management system’ : it’s a modern web2.0 ready content management framework featuring a robust and flexible API allowing webdesigners to create highly customized, accessible and standard compliant dynamic websites. You might say : well that sounds nice, but what does it actually mean ?

              Well, it means…

              You’re free!

              With MODx you have your “Get out of jail” card : you are not bound by the system the way you are by most content management applications :



              • Take control of your designs!
                The systems works for you, not the other way around smiley

              It’s called (real) separation between content and presentation. Remember having to hack the core code of a system, a plugin or module to get your layout and styles to work as expected, fix standard compliancy or accessibility issues? Well, forget those unnerving, annoying things. With MODx you get :


              • A simple and powerful Template system: MODx doesn’t use a template engine, adding a layer of complexity and rigidity to the system. MODx uses a built-in tag language. You can use tags to display variables such as document attributes, systems settings, template variables, chunks…
              • Micro-templates for granular control over content: to go one step further, MODx gives you the ability to define “micro-templates” which allow you to control precisely how and where you want to place the output of a Snippet (through what we call placeholders).
              • Dynamic stylesheets: No-one would challenge the fact that dynamic web pages have brought a revolution to the web. To this date, dynamic stylesheets (a.k.a server side css) are still rare. With its flexible document types, MODx is able to parse stylesheets and allow you to add dynamic elements to your css, via tags and snippets : pretty handy to have a dynamic path for images when moving from test to production server, or randomize a background : whatever you can imagine is possible !

              • Create and take advantage of your own content structure !
                Forget rigid content structure smiley

              Most systems have a rigid way to structure content. Usually, content has a limited structure: Title, Summary, Body. Extensions (plugins, modules or the likes) sometimes offer to manage different types of content (images, products, job offers…): but again, they force you to use a predefined content structure which does not necessarily fit your particular needs. When they do offer a way to create custom content fields, they are either limited in number or in types. MODx has no such limitations :


              • You can create any type of custom content fields: text, rich text, number, date, images, checkbox, dropdown, email, url… with no limitations whatsoever. The best part: you can do so directly from the backend, without ever having to alter the database structure manually.
              • Each custom field is linked to a given template: that’s why the custom fields are called Template Variables in MODx. It allows you to define which templates can use the custom variables, and possibly define several content structure if needed (need a product catalog ?
              • You can use, style and place those content field easily: a simple tag, [*my_template_variable*], and you can display the content wherever you like, the way you want it displayed. Better yet, if you need to make it available for frontend editing, just add a # before the variable name [*#my_template_variable*]. Pretty easy, uh?




              What’s the catch?

              The selling pitch is nice, but what’s the catch here, looks too good to be true!

              Well of course no system can be everything to everyone. Flexiblity and power has a price. Unlike most CMS, you won’t find a template installer, nor will you find a module/plugin installer. Though it’s quite fast to learn if you have a decent knowledge of website design, MODx is not a “one-click” foolproof system. Why is that?

              Because being built by professionnals out of frustration with existing solutions, it naturally aims primarily professionnal webdesigners (also pro-ams – geeks – power users) who are looking for a tool to build highly customized, accessible and standard compliant dynamic websites.

              Now does that mean MODx doesn’t care about the end-user? Sure not! It aims the end-user but as content managers or editors, not websites builders. Many opensource content management project have chosen to try to satisfy the end user first, focusing on the range of built-in features and one-click-install systems which in the end makes the application less flexible.

              The MODx team has made a different choice, and it might be why professionnals love it so much !


                .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.


                MODx est l'outil id
                • 27708 MODX Staff
                • 2,502 Posts
                @davidm, I’ll join, where’s my uniform and lunch counter discount card? grin

                Seriously, I too am busy but I would love to see support grow for MODx in the design and development world so that we might be able to attract more diversely talented designers and developers to help make MODx what we all want it to be--a pleasure to work with and limitless in function.

                I also mentioned on another thread about a book. I think that developing one for release in conjunction with 0.9.7 makes sense rather than waiting until after it is out.

                Cheers,

                Jay
                  Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub
                  • 5091
                  • 332 Posts
                  Maaike, not sure if you remember, but you are the who made me a Etomite to Modx-er from ww list grin Can’t thank you enough! Thought sometimes I do feel Etomite has its strength over Modx, but I do recognize once I am more comfortable and learn more about PHP, I can get everything I want from Modx.

                  I read E456bereastreet.com too; I am curious, how come nobody mentions Template Variable as a great strength of Modx? Personally this is one of the feature that really attracts me to Modx. Isn’t this something to boost about? I am not aware other CMS have similar feature except the other day someone in the forum mentioned that Drupal has something similar. I think Textpattern has too, but it uses ’if’ and ’else’ argument, and I found the concept hard to grasp.

                  Cheers

                  t
                    • 6726
                    • 7,075 Posts
                    @smashingred : Joining the team is not like being on the payroll, when you don’t have much time, you can prioritize food over opensource wink I’d really like you to join, if anything else to pick your brains on the team forums smiley "attract more diversely talented designers and developers" is one of my main focus for the modxcms.com content overhaul / redesign, how about contributing to the effort on a loose basis ?

                    About the book, lots to say, and things are shaping...

                    @chinesedream : You’re right about TVs, as you can see above I insist a lot on them !

                    Drupal indeed has something for custom content, it’s the CCK module, never tested it but it’s deemed to be powerful

                    Textpattern has custom fields (it’s not the conditionnal tags, something else entirely) but they’re very limited (10 fields max) and the type is locked (varchar 255). It’s nowhere near TVs... Now you’ll have to watch the newborn fork, xPattern, which aims at fixing this weakness (among other things).
                      .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.


                      MODx est l'outil id
                      • 17802
                      • 190 Posts
                      Chinesedream: I do remember you from the WW list (which I left ages ago due to lack of time), but I never realised I "converted" you. Well, you’re welcome! I enjoy promoting MODx in my spare time, you know grin

                      I personally believe the best marketing tool for MODx would be better documentation. That way we could attract more designers and front-end developers (ummm... people like me), who currently find the learning curve a bit too steep. I mean, we have a great user base right now, but we want MODx to become more mainstream, right?
                        Thanks for MODx - I love it!