Bringing Evo back to life again

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  • 222 Posts
  Stefanie Reply #431, 14 years, 4 months ago

  I don't miss creative freedom with Evo, for me, I've got my freedom there. And I did not say, that the MODX team has to invest that much time. All the changes that you find on GitHub are done in the spare time of the people that are working on this, all of them, including myself, have to make a living.
  And to say another thing clear, at the moment I don't like Revo, I would switch to a complete different CMS, because it does not matter for which CMS I have to rewrite my work on extensions or build on on top of an existing framework.
  
  The rest is already said and I don't want to repeat it again and again.
  Gone away and found a better place to stay
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  microcipcip Reply #432, 14 years, 4 months ago

  It is important to not look at EVO and REVO as two separate products but rather think of it more like an upgrade in operating system. Windows XP versus Windows 7 or MAC Leopard versus Lion. They are both operating systems of the same family but to meet the demand of the market a new version was needed. Not just an update.

  I have already seen this kind of comparison, and I think that it is not the right one.
  
  For example, between Windows XP and Windows 7 there was Windows Vista. It was new, with a shiny design and new features. Would you use it? I wouldn't, because it is slower and incredibly annoying (asking for permissions for everyting I did).
  
  After Windows 98 there was Windows ME, new design, new features etc. Would you use it? I wouldn't, as it is totally unreliable.
  
  I don't want to compare MODX Revolution with Win ME/Vista, I am just trying to make a point. I think that MODX Evolution is still a valid product and I am able to make the same website with both Evo and Revo, with the only difference that on MODX Evolution I will have a faster manager and a lightening front end, without having to work on the cache for few days to make it work fast.
  
  I am not sure about the improvements claimed by the MODX Team about Revolution Manager, as some of them, like js and css compression don't work for the majority of user (like me) and you get a blank screen. This is what happen when you make a system that is too complex.
  
  This is only my opinion and I am sure that many will not agree with me, as I could have a crappy hosting provider (I see Revo Manager slow in my localhost though, on a brand new computer). [ed. note: microcipcip last edited this post 14 years, 4 months ago.]
  Jertix.org -> Web Design & Development, Motion Graphics | Follow me on Twitter | MODx Tutorials (in Italiano) | MODx Snippets (English)
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  Tom Reply #433, 14 years, 4 months ago

  Few years ago we were happy making sites with 0.9x. Then some years making Social networks with Elgg (great). This year we decided to make an Elgg plugin to auto update websites from social network blogs. Mistake: at the same time we thought to be smart and migrate all sites to Revo: the devs hate it ... slow slow frontend. Seems we either get a revolt or move back to Evo.
  
  Anybody experience with moving 2.2.2 back to 1.1 ? Why do the core devs accept sluggy and slow? These are also high productive profs...so we cant understand how they coop?
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  modxjr1 Reply #434, 14 years, 4 months ago

  Ok, I have now read the previous 43 pages. I learned about Piwik!
  And no I am not trolling!
  (Although sometimes the responses make me laugh when people don't like what they read.)
  
  It is good that some people are attempting to update Evo.
  
  I do consider myself as a Modx USER (Yes those USERS that are somewhere yonder over there) that is upset, frustrated and angry that there was no upgrade path from Evo to Revo and no backward compatibility from Revo to Evo.
  
  To compare with OS upgrades, Windows did at least spend some effort and time to make the OS backward compatible with the previous versions for major apps.
  
  I tend to think that the time and effort to redo the Evo Core would be better spent in making Revo backward compatible with Evo addons.
  Or to make Evo addons upgradable to Revo.
  
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  Stefanie Reply #435, 14 years, 4 months ago

  You have the choice to use what you like, that is out of question. But why do you think I should work unpaid on a stack, that I don't like? Who or what do you think gives you the right to do so?
  
  Sometimes I even do not accept a job, because I don't like to work with that environment, because I have the choice to do so.
  
  
  To upgrade addons to work with Revo, most of them have to be rewritten from scratch, because the API is also changed. As said before, the extensions are available as open source and you have got the right to change them, or to ask someone to change them for free or for money. Copyleft does not mean, that you can do what you want, but you have got a lot of rights, especially compared to closed Software as Windows.
  
  Speaking about Windows, I only use it, if I got paid for using it and that is so since the last millennium.
  
  And there is somewhere a way to get your Evo into Revo, but I've nothing to do with it, never used it, never tested it.
  Gone away and found a better place to stay
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  TimGS Reply #436, 14 years, 4 months ago

  No I did not read all 40 pages. Seemed like a bunch of talking and no action.

  
  I like irony. The world would be slightly less amusing without it.
  
  I am sure either the Revo or the Evo community will be looking forward to the addons you are about to contribute.
  
  -- Tim.
  
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  microcipcip Reply #437, 14 years, 4 months ago

  I tend to think that the time and effort to redo the Evo Core would be better spent in making Revo backward compatible with Evo addons.
  Or to make Evo addons upgradable to Revo.

  I understand your point. Migrating a website to a different CMS is not that simple, however, this should have been planned by MODX Team from the beginning.
  
  Because most of us won't use Revolution, we don't have any reason to work on this.
  Jertix.org -> Web Design & Development, Motion Graphics | Follow me on Twitter | MODx Tutorials (in Italiano) | MODx Snippets (English)
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  nickf08 Reply #438, 14 years, 4 months ago

  Migrating a website to a different CMS is not that simple, however, this should have been planned by MODX Team from the beginning.

  Agreed. There was talk of an upgrade path from the outset but this never happened.
  
  I have tried Revo but it feels like a step backward to me (I am a csser not a programmer and Revo feels slow and clunky to me) and I am of the same opinion as Stefanie. Once it became clear the dev team were moving forward with Revo, I was either going to try a different CMS altogether or stick with Evo. Thankfully Stefanie, Sottwell, Microcipcip, Yama and all the awesome contributors popped up to start improving Evo. I am so excited about it.
  
  The one thing I always wondered was why the MODx dev team thought the need to totally replace Evo with Revo. Why replace a good thing when some tweaks and improvements would do the trick? Then there may have been an easy upgrade path and more converts. And now there is fragmentation in the user community. [ed. note: nickf08 last edited this post 14 years, 4 months ago.]
  Web design Adelaide
  http://gocreate.com.au
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  anonymized-26931 Reply #439, 14 years, 4 months ago

  So MODx is no longer a tool, it's a business. And that changes everything.

  
  ... and this might be related to some of the decisions taken:
  

  "we are in the process of completing the last tranche of a $2M raise from a private investor group"

  http://modx.com/blog/2012/04/04/business-transformed-now-back-to-our-roots/ [ed. note: anonymized-26931 last edited this post 14 years, 4 months ago.]
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  kp52 Reply #440, 14 years, 4 months ago

  This probably looks stupid at first glance, but I don't think there's really a lot of difference between Evo and Revo.
  
  Conceptually, that is: We still have the same basic idea of templates, snippets, chunks, TVs etc., and much the same way of putting them together. We still have the same all-important flexibility, and can sketch out the structure of a site with confidence that it can be done with MODX, without necessarily deciding which version to use until other factors are thrown into the mix.
  
  The code may well be incompatible, but for Evo to evolve into what Revo is would be a total non-starter, the differences in technique are far too radical. The key snippets such as Wayfinder, Ditto and eForm are available in Revo - I don't know much about the Revo version of Wayfinder, but certainly the attempt to transfer Ditto soon showed up the problems of trying to upgrade a complex snippet that has grown organically to its current state. It's quite right that getResources translates and enhances Ditto's functionality for the new environment, rather than attempting to transfer the code. As for eForm vs Formit - even more so. It might be worth trying reverse-engineer Evo versions of some Revo snippets, but if anyone's getting that initimate with the code, they're probably better off developing for Revo in any case.
  ;) KP [ed. note: kp52 last edited this post 14 years, 4 months ago.]

This discussion is closed to further replies. Keep calm and carry on.