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    • 11055 ☆ A M B ☆
    • 3,112 Posts
    I almost sure that a generic name should not be used because of MODx's philosophy itself.
    There is no standard extra, only the core that matters.

    Everyone can use the provided one, or create their own and then contribute back to the community.
    That allows multi extras for the same purpose.
    Take names: FileLister and FileDownload R (evo's FD reincarnation).
    Both do the exactly same job, but completely different codes.
    It's up to the users which one suits better for them.

    Like, there are breadcrumbs and quickcrumbs.
    I prefer the last one.
      Rico
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      • 436 ☆ A M B ☆
      • 265 Posts
      Lets think of the future and focus on Revolution here, and not worry about Evolution extras such as Ditto and Jot for now.

      I think it would make most sense if MODX renamed the extras that are marked as "solid" to something which is completely self-explanatory.

      WayFinder > Menus
      FormIt > Forms
      Quip > Commments
      Archivist > Archives
      phpThumbOf > Thumbnails
      Login > User Profiles
      Discuss > Forum
      TinyMCE > WYSIWYG
      SimpleSearch > Search

      Gallery > keep it as gallery
      IF > keep it as IF, or maybe If Statement if it were to be expanded to include If Else
      getResources > all the "get" extras make sense because they simply get something from the database.

      There might be a short-term confusion surrounding the names on blog posts, searches and documentation but over time these things can be updated and eventually we'll have well-named extras.

      And if people are worried about loosing some brandability of these names, we could always look to a company like Apple for inspiration, their core set of apps is either completely self-explanatory, such as DVD Player, Dictionary, Calculator, Mail, or they put an "i" before the name, such as iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, iCal, etc - if we had to add something referring to the MODX branding to the "solid" extra names they could be modBlog, modCommnets, modSearch, modForum, etc; where the "x" is being replaced by the functionality of the extra.

      I think the MODX core team should put something in place where they can rename existing extras without running into licences issues or problems with intellectual property. If all of this code is on GitHub, and a developer decices to stop working on his extra, then the MODX core team can fork it and then resume the development - taking control of the situation here is really important to prevent many half-finished extras floating around adding confusion.

      Putting something like this in place now would have so many benefits in the long run, I'm sure people are searching for "MODX forum plugin", "thumbnail generator MODX" or "MODX blogging extra" and if a single, "solid" extra called Forum, Thumbnails or Blog came up first it would make a new users life a lot easier.

      I noticed if I search for "MODX blogging extra" Mark Hamstra's package Essentials for Blogging shows up first; is essentially the "solid" Blog extra from the MODX core team going to duplicate this? As a new user, once the official "solid" Blog extra has been released this could cause extra confusion?

      There's already a pretty steep learning curve to MODX, and choosing exotic names for the extras doesn't help this.

      Being able to easily search and find and install Thumbnails, Menus and Comments would be infinitely clearer than phpThumbOf, WayFinder and Quip.



      On another note, is there currently a "solid" eCommerce extra? I haven't used VisionCart in a long time, but is this at a stage where it could be simply called Store or eCommerce, so when people search for a "MODX store plugin" or "MODX ecommerce plugin" an extra like this would show up first?



      Taking a step back for a second, why are we using names such as Chunks and Snippets? The name Template is complete self-explanatory and is a fitting name for its purpose. But to a new user a Chunk can be quite confusing, why not rename these HTML and PHP? Instead of inserting some Chunks into your Templates, you'd add HTML into your Templates?

      Additionally, while writing this I've had to keep correcting myself from writing "plugin" to "extra" why have we called them "extras" and not something clearer like a "plugin"? [ed. note: AdamWintle last edited this post 14 years, 11 months ago.]
        MODX Ambassador for Thailand. Managing Director at Monogon, a web design and development studio based in Bangkok, Thailand. - Follow me on Twitter.
        • 3749
        • 24,544 Posts
        erm, could we wait until the ink is dry on the Official Guide before renaming everything?
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          • 17499 ☆ A M B ☆
          • 872 Posts
          Even though i agree with Adam last part (calling chunks html and snippets -> php) i don't that it is a good move now.
          I would have been a good idea when Revolution development started.

          Concerning the question "What if somebody come with a better solution ?", i'm asking then "What if someone name is poorly coded component with a more common name ?"
          Isn't that even worse ?

          Mark, searching for "MODx comment plugin" (as a newbie would) in google.fr bring up Jot in third position, with a decsription that could be better :"Jot is a snippet for MODx and gives your site users the opportunity to enter feedback on your articles. Add comments to articles, create ..."

          Searching for "MODx comments plugin" make Jot comme on the 2 first links.
          All other search results brings up other subjects.
          Quip doesn't even show up in the results with the last query (up to the 7th page).

          This does not happen with other CMS (good results + aggregation on the cms website for further results).
            • 19604 ☆ A M B ☆
            • 179 Posts
            @Bob: That's just what I thought! (Still no delivery for me, but I know that help is on it's way. Thanks, Jay!) But there is NO real need to change some basic thing:

            CHUNK: Wikipedia says: "Chunk (information), a fragment of information used in many multimedia formats". The first part "yes", but multimedia "no". But I don't think it's a good idea to rename "chunks" to "html" because chunks can be much more than pure HTML. Some of my chunks don't even have HTML-code in them at all, just MODX tags.

            SNIPPET: Wikipeida says. "Snippet (programming), a short reusable piece of computer source code". Sound PERFECT to me.

            PLUGIN: Wikipedia says: "Plug-in (computing), a piece of software which enhances another software application and usually cannot be run independently". Well, not exactly what this means in the MODX world. The connection to an "event" could be made clearer, but I think it is still a very good name for the functionality a plugin provides.

            EXTRAS: Well, we don't have ask Wikipedia on this one, but I know extras primarily from DVDs. Maybe "Extension" would be a better because more general name. Something that extend the functionality of MODX. Or may be "add-on", something being put on top of MODX (being a rocksolid foundation).

            BIG PROBLEM: The search may be good in "searching", but is definitely not good in "finding"! Get into the "Package Manager" and try to search for "get". Guess what? You will find "CodeMirror", "makeQR" or "SIMPLX Template" (Who's description is SO long that it disappears out of the bottom of my browser. Scroller needed!)). But you will not find "getResources". That's a bad search, bad. Search for "Editor" and you won't get "TinyMCE" but "PageBreaker" with it's wonderful description "First public release" (bezumkin2? What do you want to tell us).

            @travis_love is so right: "My issues were never naming conventions, though it helped to give me an idea. The issues were always real s$#%y descriptions and poor search within the manager. I think what would greatly help newbies is to continue streamlining the categorization but also set in place a standard for how extras are added." That is so true!!! I don't want to read the release notes on top of the description. I want the functionality described. I want to know whether this "extras" is a solution for "my" problem or a solution for "another" problem. And some basic examples should also be included in the text, making it easier to get how this thing will possibly work. [ed. note: mindeffects last edited this post 14 years, 11 months ago.]
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              • 25663 MODX Staff
              • 12,272 Posts
              Quote from: BobRay at Nov 16, 2011, 11:18 PM
              ...What's the feeling on releasing things like UpdateProfile and LogPageNotFound as separate packages while still leaving them inside their current packages?

              I think it's a great idea.
                Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
                Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
                • 25663 MODX Staff
                • 12,272 Posts
                On the subject of searching for extras, a short, Tweet-length description that weighted above an Add-on's name would do worlds to help usability and could be used in a meta description field for Google, too. Great suggestions folks, and please keep it up! [ed. note: rethrash last edited this post 14 years, 11 months ago.]
                  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
                  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
                  • 36624
                  • 535 Posts
                  +1000 for having simple and basic name for "core" extras ! i remember how surprising it was to discover revo name like Quip or Jot but from my french point of view it doesn't mean nothing at all.. just fancy name.

                  so let me add my 2 cents suggestion wink

                  WayFinder > Menu
                  FormIt > Form
                  Quip > Comment
                  Archivist > Archive
                  phpThumbOf > Image
                  Login > Login
                  Discuss > Forum
                  SimpleSearch > Search

                  + getResource > List

                  nb: no plural is better because we always forget the "s"..

                  and for the blog extras > "Blog" of course !
                    CTRL+SHIFT+U - Clear Cache
                    CTRL+SHIFT+H - Hiding Heft Panel
                    CTRL+SHIFT+N - Fast Create Resource
                    CTRL+ALT+P - Preview Recource (in edit resorce window)
                    CTRL+ALT+S - Save
                    • 28215
                    • 4,149 Posts
                    Quote from: rethrash at Nov 17, 2011, 07:04 AM
                    Quote from: BobRay at Nov 16, 2011, 11:18 PM
                    ...What's the feeling on releasing things like UpdateProfile and LogPageNotFound as separate packages while still leaving them inside their current packages?

                    I think it's a great idea.

                    Not possible, due to the way those Extras are written. They have core dependencies with the Login code.
                      shaun mccormick | bigcommerce mgr of software engineering, former modx co-architect | github | splittingred.com
                      • 28215
                      • 4,149 Posts
                      Quote from: BobRay at Nov 16, 2011, 11:18 PM
                      Let's not forget that you get to enter tags when you submit an extra. I don't know if they're used in the search process at the repository, but they certainly should be.
                      They are used in search. I've updated them for some of the more prominent Extras, and that will help.
                        shaun mccormick | bigcommerce mgr of software engineering, former modx co-architect | github | splittingred.com