ModX as a buisness weapon

Hello!
I currently work for a small design firm in VT and we do small to large scale web sites. I’ve recently discovered how awesome ModX is and how production enhancing it is. I would currently put it up against Rails in terms of how quickly and efficiently it can produce amazing sites, exactly how the client wants it.
We’ve begun using ModX as a weapon for high proficiency in our business because of this.

However, it seems almost too easy at times. Does ModX perhaps cross that line of developing awesome sites to turn us all into monkeys? I definitely am not worried about losing a client because they really have no need to worry about what system we use to create their sites just what modern techniques such as databasing and search friendly terms. We try to keep jargon to a minimal. What about in terms of getting a job? There seems to always be a need for someone to can create database driven sites optimized for search engines and easy maintenance. How would someone react to getting a resume from someone with ModX in their background as a major tool for creating most of their sites?

How many of you think ModX is an applicable solution for people who necessarily aren’t in the "know"?
What are your thoughts and opinions on how ModX can turn months spent designing a database driven content manage site into a few days work?
It’s awesome I know.

I’m interested to hear what other business developers think of the religion of ModX.

MODx is really just a tool to handle the basics as it ships. It will never be able to replace professionals, but it definitely lets you adjust priorities from implementing a bunch of core functionality to higher value-added areas.

One could almost make an analogy to the buggy whip industry – I personally think the types of changes MODx enables are inevitable, and that MODx can (and is) bravely leading the charge. MODx requires a different mindset, as it offers much more flexibility and paths to accomplish things. It’s a custom web application framework that just so happens to ship "out of the box" as a fairly capable CMS, and is pretty much ubiquitously deployable even on inexpensive <$10/month shared servers. Wait until you see how capable it becomes later this year...

In my personal experience, MODx responsible for gross productivity increases in building sites and custom web applications. Things that would have cost high 5 (or more) figures and a big team of people a coupe of years ago are possible with a few people and at much lower costs. Clients love it and my family loves it, so it’s a win-win for everyone. It’s directly responsible for me being the only person that ever needs to see my resume in fact, and I hope it empowers a lot more people to do the same if they so choose.

Quote from: zscott at Sep 18, 2006, 09:34 AM

What about in terms of getting a job? There seems to always be a need for someone to can create database driven sites optimized for search engines and easy maintenance. How would someone react to getting a resume from someone with ModX in their background as a major tool for creating most of their sites?

Well, I’d penalise them unless they got the capitalisation right (MODx). Seriously, I’d need to see what someone had actually done with MODx - whether they’d just used existing snippets or whether they’d forged ahead with their own custom db-driven stuff on top. So I would gamble that it would be good to say on one’s CV that they had contributed add-ins to the MODx community.

I guess the bigger question is one of working practices; if an employer didn’t use MODx and wasn’t able to switch to MODx, then that experience wouldn’t be a big plus point.

But successfully completing projects... no matter whose code you use... that always has to be a good thing. If MODx means you have 12 reference sites instead of 6, so much the better.

Thanks guys, really appreciate the positive feed back!
I’m planning on developing further with "MODx" in the future but as of now I’m just trying to master all of the basics with it. The learning curve is very dealable however, it’s only taken me about 3 days to really get a good understanding of how it all works.
You both have made some outstanding responses and I can’t wait to see the future of MODx.

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew I was going to love it (then again, I am the marketing guy )

Very nice debate there. I have discussed this quite a bit in the french world, not yet much in the english side here, but I have a few ideas about this. And, better, some first hand experience selling MODx (and successful, too), and building websites (I’ll let you judge if that was succesful ). So far, I have 3 MODx websites done, and 2 more at the end of the month.

But let’s get to the point.

Quote from: zscott at Sep 18, 2006, 09:34 AM

I’ve recently discovered how awesome ModX is and how production enhancing it is. I would currently put it up against Rails in terms of how quickly and efficiently it can produce amazing sites, exactly how the client wants it.

You nailed it right there. It’s not only the speed but also the efficiency which makes it a great tool : it’s faster, but as Ryan said, it’s also cheaper than the competition (in the sense that it allows to do more for less money).

Quote from: zscott

What about in terms of getting a job? There seems to always be a need for someone to can create database driven sites optimized for search engines and easy maintenance. How would someone react to getting a resume from someone with ModX in their background as a major tool for creating most of their sites?

Not sure there that our notoriety is enough yet to get someone a job, first the recruiter would have to know MODx... but I think it’s a safe bet to say in the future this might change

Quote from: zscott

How many of you think ModX is an applicable solution for people who necessarily aren’t in the "know"?

I guess what you mean is how does MODx compare to other solutions in terms of end user-friendliness ?I’
I’d say very good : half of the contract I have gotten are thanks to a QuickEdit demo

Quote from: zscott

What are your thoughts and opinions on how ModX can turn months spent designing a database driven content manage site into a few days work?

MODx sure makes things easier (and possible ! I don’t know any CMS that empowers you like this), but I don’t think it compares to Code Igniter or RoR (...yet )

Quote from: rthrash at Sep 18, 2006, 10:02 AM

One could almost make an analogy to the buggy whip industry – I personally think the types of changes MODx enables are inevitable, and that MODx can (and is) bravely leading the charge. MODx requires a different mindset, as it offers much more flexibility and paths to accomplish things. It’s a custom web application framework that just so happens to ship "out of the box" as a fairly capable CMS, and is pretty much ubiquitously deployable even on inexpensive <$10/month shared servers. Wait until you see how capable it becomes later this year...

I am bookmarking and keeping this for quotes, if you don’t mind
I couldn’t agree more and it sums up exactly why I jumped on board a year ago

Quote from: rthrash

In my personal experience, MODx responsible for gross productivity increases in building sites and custom web applications. Things that would have cost high 5 (or more) figures and a big team of people a coupe of years ago are possible with a few people and at much lower costs. Clients love it and my family loves it, so it’s a win-win for everyone. It’s directly responsible for me being the only person that ever needs to see my resume in fact, and I hope it empowers a lot more people to do the same if they so choose.

I sure does empower people, I am a good example !

I started freelancing as a web designer around the time I discovered MODx. At the time, I was working with Textpattern and CMS Made simple which were already more flexible than the average CMS, as far as templating is concerned. What MODx brought to the table is another dimension of flexibility with TVs I had the ability to really enjoy custom data structure (not even mentionning @bindings there), plus a nice frontend editing module which "clicks with prospect" and has won me a big one lately against Drupal and Joomla competitors

Since I started using MODx and offering MODx, I have had much more success converting contacts into contracts
So yes, MODx is a business weapon

Not only because it really makes building websites easier, faster and less expensive but also because if you pitch it right you can really kick some pretty well established systems. Consider that I had only 2 references when I won a 12 000 $ contract, which I would say is not bad for a former business process consultant with an old passion for the web and programming What will come out of this contract (end of september) is a 250 pages website with both a private and public section, a nice (? -> Work in progress, using 0.9.5 beta2 BTW) design and extensive use of TVs, snippets and modules.

Quote from: PaulGregory at Sep 18, 2006, 11:12 AM

Seriously, I’d need to see what someone had actually done with MODx - whether they’d just used existing snippets or whether they’d forged ahead with their own custom db-driven stuff on top. So I would gamble that it would be good to say on one’s CV that they had contributed add-ins to the MODx community.

It sure is a definite plus when you need a coder, but I’ll advocate (not being one ) that being a coder doesn’t necessarily make you a good designer (it’s hard to have both skillset, I guess). Don’t mistaken me there, I am not saying a developper/coder can not be a designer, just that it’s hard to be good at both. So I wouldn’t necessarily make that a requirement for all projects, just for projects that need custom features (not covered by existing extensions). Even then, someone like me can always ask guys like you to do the code writing If you reverse things, those requiring advanced design skills would sure require someone like Zi Which you could hire.

It all depend on the project, is my opinion. And I think there is a future for a network of MODx (certified or not) professionnals working together (now here is an idea ) We all have strong suits and different availability, and some project require specific skills which could be called upon for a given project at a given time.

I sure will need the help of qualified MODx developpers/coders, as it’s my area of weakness (I know very little php) but I sure can sell my MODx...

As a professional web developer myself for a university (as well as a volunteeraholic - i bet you know what I mean), I get a lot of different projects to work on. Most are actually more of web "applications" rather than web "sites", and I think this discussion really runs on that line.

If I’m creating a site for a project or client that’s just an informational site, with maybe a picture gallery here and there - but primarily a low-to-medium level of applicative usage - then MODx has proven to me to be the tool of choice. It is, after all, simply a powerful tool for a web developer to use. It is very powerful (especially with what I’m reading is coming in .95 and on) for when you want to roll out a site but not be the only one to manage it - yet still keep the programming flexibility of a framework.

However, a lot of applications I do here simply cannot be done in MODx, nor was MODx ever intended to do the things they request (imagine trying to create an online equipment reservations system that interfaces with a scheduling and timeclock application, all the while connected to an internal inventory application...not exactly something I started out thinking, "Let’s do that in MODx!" ). So It comes down to what you need. I don’t think I’d build a Google Calendar in MODx anytime soon.

So if you want to just make websites for small businesses or independent, low-key jobs, MODx can be a very useful tool in your hands. You can probably at least double your production time with it, I’d say. But if you’re looking to do the heavy-hitting programming with Intranets and Web Application Development that corporations do now and hire, then I don’t think MODx is going to be as big of a deal in your world.

I put MODx on my resume. I’d encourage those who are skilled in it to. Just follow the cardinal rule when trying to get a job: emphasize the skills you have that they want. And don’t apply for a PHP web application developer position if you don’t know how to program an OOP MVC framework from the ground up.

Well spoken Shaun.

Interestingly MODx has become the CORE of my fledgling business...

I have used it on UMPTEEN sites ... it covers almost everythig i could want it to do i know this isnt the discussion .. but as soon as i am asked "ok i need a website .. and i need it to do this this and this" the first thing i do .. is work out exaclty what snippets ill need Im a one man band .. and more a designer than a coder .. so i dont have the time to develop php engines of my own ... modx has been my godsend.. /me heads to the donation box.

@splittinggred
ive been thinking about that a lot and i wish there was an easier way to bring both together.

see further discussion here.