Role management questions

ppaul, if you had actually taken the time to read previous posts, you would see that we think the permissions system in it’s current state sucks honestly. It’s probably not cut out for the particular types of jobs you need it for. If that’s the case, then accept it for what it is and get over it.

Suggestions: rather than pick it apart and keep on "beating a dead horse" with lines of questioning like you’re doing here, why not put back on your programmers hat and come up with a way to migrate/merge the user systems (web vs. manager) and share that with everyone. Asking rhetorical questions for what comes across (to not just me, btw) as a thinly veiled attempt to prove intellectual superiority could very well lead to resentment.

You’ve got some really valid points and my gut says you could really contribute here, but honestly and with all due respect, you’re totally rude, arrogant and rough in your delivery at times... paragraphs of bitching and negativity with an offhand dismissal that it’s not supposed to be negative (riiiiIIIGHHT...) at the end just doesn’t come across well. Let’s figure out how to better communicate please!

Quote from: ppaul at Jul 31, 2006, 07:29 PM

BTW: the right to EDIT does indeed NOT imply the right to SAVE!
You can edit a doc as long as you wish, but when you click "SAVE" you will be told that you don’t have the permission to do that! >:(

It implies it but does not include it.

I’ve found the point of this now - guest access so that people can see how you did something (and copy/paste from your content source) without being able to screw it up. If you have lots of people maintaining different but similar areas this is potentially quite useful. The Glasgow branch could view the source of Cardiff’s content.

But yes, the privileges system is convoluted. Having set up a "PeopleWhoAreLaura" group for one client, it does seem silly. If you can identify a coherent set of fixes, please let us know. Presently the biggest issue is the web user / manager user split. I think that at the time that they are joined, it will be worth writing a simple flexible system. Presently anyone with specific needs can just bypass the pre-installed system and code up their own permissions.

Ryan,

Quote from: rthrash at Jul 31, 2006, 10:26 PM

ppaul, if you had actually taken the time to read previous posts, you would see that we think the permissions system in it’s current state sucks honestly. It’s probably not cut out for the particular types of jobs you need it for. If that’s the case, then accept it for what it is and get over it.

Before stepping into that issue I checked the forum for further information. But I didn’t find that anyone states that the permission-system "sucks honestly". Obviously I have not found all info concerning this..

Quote from: rthrash at Jul 31, 2006, 10:26 PM

Suggestions: rather than pick it apart and keep on "beating a dead horse" with lines of questioning like you’re doing here, why not put back on your programmers hat and come up with a way to migrate/merge the user systems (web vs. manager) and share that with everyone.

If I had known that this horse is dead - I wouldn’t have spend so much time on it. And yes, my intention was to put back my programmer’s hat. And my posting was just intended to be a report on the actual state of things, and letting my findings being either confirmed or corrected by the forum-members. Without knowing how it is right now, I find it difficult to find out how it could be done better.
Quote from: rthrash at Jul 31, 2006, 10:26 PM

Asking rhetorical questions for what comes across (to not just me, btw) as a thinly veiled attempt to prove intellectual superiority could very well lead to resentment.
You’ve got some really valid points and my gut says you could really contribute here, but honestly and with all due respect, you’re totally rude, arrogant and rough in your delivery at times... paragraphs of bitching and negativity with an offhand dismissal that it’s not supposed to be negative (riiiiIIIGHHT...) at the end just doesn’t come across well. Let’s figure out how to better communicate please!

This is the second time others have the impression that I am "patronising" or attempting to prove intellectual superiority. I do not have the latter, nor do I intend to pretend it. Must be a cultural and/or language issue. Reading my last post again, I find it very stuck to the facts. It is more or less a protocol of my actions, reactions and results.
How could I have formulated that one better?? Obviously I am lacking some important "soft skills" when writing in English.
To figure out how to better communicate: it would be of great help for me, if you could point me to those of my phrases and wordings which lead to that impression. (per PM, preferably) Since as long as I do not understand the cause I cannot change the effect. My first measure will be not to write so lengthy posts and to post less.
Sorry for the annoyance!

While I value debate very much and love it, I do think this kind of discussion will definitely lead nowhere. It might be a cultural or language skill issue, but your english seems pretty elaborate to me, and I have collaborated with a few german people back @Textpattern’s and never came accross those kind of problems, even though sometimes the wording was a bit "rough around the edges" Many countries are represented here @MODx forums, and most of the time, things go smooth. You hardly ever will see any harsh reaction from the dev team, that should be a telltale sign that it’s time to leave it at that there

I do think you’re a very smart guy, you thus know pretty well what Ryan and Jason mean. I don’t think neither Ryan or Jason can (or should, for that matter) take the time to point out phrases or wordings that have led them to that perception (plus, it would drag us down into a pit without end, it’s already hard enough to communicate when we use the same language...). And frankly, this kind of reply only reinforce the feeling that you won’t let go and really do attempt to demonstrate intellectual superiority... That and the fact that a few threads of yours follow the same pattern

My take is : let’s leave it at.
You could be a great asset to this community, you’ve proven you have valid points and good ideas, not to mention real commitment (thanks again for your donation).
You see something that could be better ? That’s great, let’s figure out a way to improve it. Criticism never enhanced anything by itself...

I have said my piece, I won’t answer any further, this wouldn’t help. I do think this thread won’t get productive, and I would be inclined to think it should be closed.
The dev team answered your questions, you know where things stand. Now is time to move forward : either wait for the 1.0 branch and new permissions system, write up a request in the Wishlist or better yet, as Ryan points out write (or contribute to) writing code to improve the current system.

ppaul,

I apologize for calling you to task publicly then and really do appreciate your feedback. And now that you’ve confirmed that the permissions and split user system is a total wreck that is not suitable for workflow needs that doesn’t involve a lot of hacks, let’s get cranking. Code away sir!