Editing user- and document-groups, and the 'insanity' of settings.

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  Zombie Reply #1, 17 years, 9 months ago

  Seems I’ve getting something going wrong here. Or is this really the state of the modx-art?
  I do not find an option to edit user- and document-groups directly (i.e. without looping manually thru docs and users to see/change to which group(s) they belong)?
  
  Users/Manager permissions/Document Groups just shows me the names of the groups and how many docs are in them, but not which documents! Where’s the "edit" button for user/document groups?
  
  
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  opengeek Reply #2, 17 years, 9 months ago

  That is the state of things -- we are working on overhauling this along with some other areas, so we can introduce various batch management options like this (editing user memberships, or document group memberships, or just about any field, for multiple documents).
  Jason Coward
  Chief Architect @ MODX
  http://www.jasoncoward.com | http://twitter.com/drumshaman | https://github.com/opengeek
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  Zombie Reply #3, 17 years, 9 months ago

  Thanks Jason!
  If you can give me a little clue where to put that in, I could try to create a display of a list of document ids and names in the manager-view.
  It’s just a little sql-join, I guess, and, helas, knowing where to put it. The way that is right now is quite annoying.
  
  BTW: There is another thing I find strange: In the role-management/content-management view there are 2 checkboxes:
  EDIT a document and SAVE a document. Why the hell should I edit a document when I cannot save it? What’s the meaning of it? If "edit" comprised saving and "save" would be PUBLISH instead, I’d be happy
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  PaulGregory Reply #4, 17 years, 9 months ago

  I assumed that Save happens before Edit - like the difference between Post on this forum and Edit message. And also that Edit may allow you to edit other people’s content.
  
  No, I don't know what OpenGeek's saying half the time either.
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  Zombie Reply #5, 17 years, 9 months ago

  Sorry, Paul G, but your reply doesn’t make any sense for me.
  Save BEFORE edit: what is to be saved then??!
  Just keep in mind that CREATE (you called it "post") is a whole different issue... Do you remember what CRUD means? How does it work in MODx? That’s, basically, my question!
  (And that’s why creating a doc without the option to EDIT and SAVE it would be quite insane )
  
  EDIT: And your assumption that Edit may allow to change other people’s content is not very plausible either, since MODx doesn’t care about ownership at all.. just another workflow-pitfall I would say...
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  PaulGregory Reply #6, 17 years, 9 months ago

  I drafted the following before your double-edit.
  
  I meant a document that hasn’t been edited (ie has been added but not changed).
  
  However, looking back at the list, I see that "Create new document" is a distinct thing.
  
  I’ve looked into the code, and as far as I can tell users can load the ’Create new document’ or ’Edit document’ screen if they have the relevant permission but do indeed also need ’Save’ to save anything.
  
  I suppose there *are* times when you’d like people to be able to poke around without saving changes - perhaps on a demo site or something.
  
  Yes, it would probably be better if the relevant ’Create’ / ’Edit’ option was also used to check if a user could ’Save’, and it would be useful to have ’Publish’ distinct.
  
  Edit AFTER reading your edited post:
  
  coming soon when I calm down.
  No, I don't know what OpenGeek's saying half the time either.
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  Zombie Reply #7, 17 years, 9 months ago

  coming soon when I calm down

  Oh sorry Paul, if I’ve set you up. The result seems to be, as Jason has noted, that these things have to be reworked to be more plausible and effective - and to permit workflows which some of us need. Esp. those which work on bigger projects. As long as you are the "master of the content-universe" and just have some web-users, MODx is perfect. But, usually, this scenario only fits for smaller projects.
  
  best regards Paul! (honestly :*)
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  PaulGregory Reply #8, 17 years, 9 months ago

  I’ve decided not to edit the post, because it is annoying. Particularly when you add two sections and only claim one part to be "EDIT:". So it’s here as a reply instead.
  
  I think there’s a language barrier between us. I’m not sure what you mean by "plausible"; it doesn’t seem to fit with the way I use it.
  
  Also, Jason was only talking about the viewing of the settings - he didn’t say in his post that they were all going to change (although it is likely that they are).
  
  Anyway. A few notes on the parts of your post that irked me.
  Quote from: ppaul at Jul 28, 2006, 09:52 PM

  
  Just keep in mind that CREATE (you called it "post") is a whole different issue...

  You missed it out and that’s what led to my confusion. It in fact isn’t a whole different issue as that appears to use "Save" as well.
  Quote from: ppaul at Jul 28, 2006, 09:52 PM

  Do you remember what CRUD means?

  In all honesty, I hadn’t actually looked up what it meant until you asked me this question in this rather patronising manner. It appears to be a term from computing theory that has little relevance to the real world. I have been working with databases for 12 years without coming across this acronym, although I have been happily creating, reading, updating and deleting all sorts of data.
  
  Quote from: ppaul at Jul 28, 2006, 09:52 PM

  How does it work in MODx? That’s, basically, my question!

  I don’t actually understand that question. It does work, but what you want goes further than just CRUD. I think you really want to ask a question about how you restrict users from doing parts of CRUD *and* from making _specific_ updates (eg change Published setting).
  
  Quote from: ppaul at Jul 28, 2006, 09:52 PM

  
  (And that’s why creating a doc without the option to EDIT and SAVE it would be quite insane )

  Actually, viewing (READing) the document edit form page and actioning a CREATE or UPDATE are different things, and it is not entirely "insane" for there to be different settings. Just because you can configure something in a stupid way does not make the configuration options stupid.
  
  And there’s often time when you’d want someone to be able to create a document but not edit it.
  
  Quote from: ppaul at Jul 28, 2006, 09:52 PM

  
  EDIT: And your assumption that Edit may allow to change other people’s content is not very plausible either, since MODx doesn’t care about ownership at all.. just another workflow-pitfall I would say...
  

  My earlier inference that Save didn’t apply to both Edit and Create was wrong. But Edit always comes after a Save. This may be a save that someone else made. If your usergroup allows Edit but not Create, then Edit only allows you to change other people’s content. If your usergroup allows Create but not Edit, then you can’t touch other people’s content.
  
  Anyway. If we run with the turn this thread made - ie into "whether the settings are logical" rather than "why can’t you see a list of what documents they are applied to" - and look at this from a more positive perspective, exactly what settings would you like to have?
  No, I don't know what OpenGeek's saying half the time either.
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  sottwell Reply #9, 17 years, 9 months ago

  This might all be avoided if the "edit" option were changed to "view". Yes, the actual functionality being used is the "edit" functionality without the "save" part, but usually "edit" is presumed to include "save". Maybe even the "save" button could be greyed/disabled out if the user doesn’t have "save" permissions?
  
  [personal note]
  There’s no need for queries (or even criticism) about the actual functionality of features of MODx to be taken as personal attacks. It’s only a computer program; take it easy or you’ll end up burned out.
  [/personal note]
  Studying MODX in the desert - http://sottwell.com
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  Zombie Reply #10, 17 years, 9 months ago

  Didn’t want to start a flame here nor did I intend to intimidate anyone.
  I just couldn’t understand the access-settings and they made not much sense for me. That’s all.
  Besides that Ican only second what sottwell said:
  

  There’s no need for queries (or even criticism) about the actual functionality of features of MODx to be taken as personal attacks.

  And of course - as a non-native speaker - it happens to me that I sound harsher than I intend to, and some misunderstanding occurs from time to time. I try to reduce that phenomenon as best as I can and I will change my policies of post-editing posts just because I think that nobody has read them yet.
  I guess this thread is so screwed up now, that closing it would be the best thing to do.
  

This discussion is closed to further replies. Keep calm and carry on.