The 900 lb. gorilla awakes

I think Google has a culture of starting with something small /free. But Once they have 1 million + users, I think they will start to introduce upgrade services, bigger hosting options, more advanced but chargeable add-ons etc. Its a very logical step and one that would generate a lot of revenue for them.

I agree that right now MODx is in a completly different league. I guess the point I was making is that they (and MS) are fully aware of the Open Source model and in some ways they are also offering current services FREE like Open Source but with the flexibility to add charges later (Google started with a browser, at first it was all about free listings and now they make a small fortune with google adwords and the like for businesses who want a higher listing). I am also convinced that once google maps is a must use application by everyone there will be a revenue business model somewhere behind it.

What Google will not be able to compete on is local and personal service and for me that’s a great opportuntiy for Modx business alliances and higher value services

Guess we’ll just have to build it so they come then, eh?

This really is quite an issue to us. It’s good if we anticipate all the possibility, even though it’s minor, rather than knowing it’s a major issue.

The good news is, we’ve been aiming to 2nd-tier users, which allow us to have more space to stand different with Google and other CMS hosting out there. Basically as the end-user, I might get tired learning new stuff just to get one website up and running, especially from business perspective. They could spent their time more in getting more revenue for their company rather than taking care of their website and learning nothing that can make/earn revenue for them. So until this point we are good to go, and this won’t be an issue for us as CMS for developers and designers.

The bad news is, if Google or other big online company decide to make the system as easy and as flexible as possible, some small/medium size company would rather hire someone with minimum payment, and ask this new recruit to learn the tools provided by Google or other online company to build their website. Bascially the cost that they need to pay is much less than paying a designer, and they can ensure that they have their website being maintained/updated. No matter what, even if they use us, they still need somebody to use our MODx system to update their site, which means they still need somebody to kinda specialize in this field. Another bad news, with the current product offering, we can’t even compete with all those big enterprise CMS system out there, which leave us stucked in the middle with no target market at all.

From my current perspective, I believe this is the best tool for freelancer and other small web development company, but to make it to play in a big enterprise market, we need a better system with a more proven performance, reliability, security, and scalability. Lets face it, even though Google take over the internet market, we still have several clients that still need us to do their websites, so it won’t be a big problem to us, ever since we are not having the same goal and the same market with Google. Let see, Google might aim for the whole internet users, while we are aiming at several companies that need our skill and system to build their website. It’s for sure that we won’t affect Google in whatever way, while Google might affect us, but they don’t care that much, whether they have a few internet users still using us and our system, rather than their system. All they care about is the percentage from the total internet population/market.

So it comes back to us, how are we going to put ourself in the market. Are we gonna try to affect the whole internet users like Google, or keep it small so that only freelance web developer will use the software. If we keep it small, we will play fine with Google, but if we try to make it big, than we need to take on on this Google and all other big online company out there that are having the same goal and vision with us.

(Enough with the long diplomatic speech, lets listen some comments/feedbacks. Pros/Cons are welcome.)

Well, there are other skills we have, Design, navigation and good copywritng are all skills that take time to master. But very small businesses will still want to cut corners. Already we get customers wanting a really good business website for under £1000.00.

As products like google develop, it may be harder to get small value orders so even automating MOdx templates will not solve problem as it takes us into price sensitive territory where these customers will not pay for our skills. Also they need training otherwise you have too much support relative to what they will pay. So I see it like this

Web Bloggers / Hobbyist’s /Small business user
People who do it themselves, some with good skills other with very limited skills. Those who need a basic few pages could use google. Those who understand advantages of MOdx will go that route. Modx could target this market better by de-skilling product set-up. For example, automated install based on choosing options and pre-designed templates with a pre-hosted solution maybe at very cheap monthly hosting rate. (Or start with free hosting to test market)

Web Developers /Designers - (make a living from selling web services)
With google and others pushing into bottom end (Volume) of market we will not compete so easy so have to move upmarket into bigger commercial arena and compete with Commercial level CMS solutions... How does MODx compare here with commercial products ? Also who will write commercial level add-ons that take weeks or months to develop and then prepared to post on Forum for anyone to use?.

If MOdx really wanted to attract the web developers /designers who sell services (There are 1000’s) there must be a good business model, and in any event that would be good to have. Other CMS solutions are still working in old way "open source -free" yet market is changing and the explosive growth of adding new users /members is slowing compared to past years.

Overall CMS products will get more complex as more features are added. To install systems successfully will require skilled people. Many of the people I speak to on Forums make a living from selling web solutions. If these people cannot make a living from Modx in the commercial market in the future they may be foced to change and that would mean less development of add-ons etc.

A few questions :

What end goal is modx going for?, what type of architecture is it based upon?

Is it fairly scalable at present? And if not, how can we make it so?
- How well does it handle hundreds/thousands of users online, accessing/viewing/editing pages.

What target markets are we currently aiming at with MODx? Hobbyists, Enterprise Level corporates, Small Businesses?

What are the primary strengths and weaknesses of modx? And then compared to other CMS solutions out there.

How much of the system could be automated?, and at what cost of resources(time& money)?

What kind of support can be offered to clients, how quickly can their issues be resolved with MODx? or with other web solutions, maybe its support, personal service that can only be offered by smaller companies that is going to be important.

Google has resources to change their software anyhow they like, however maybe this in itself is a turn off to companies, google could change their policies, and software in a way that someone doesnt like.

Just my 2 cents worth for now.

It’s becoming an interesting response.

Stempy, most of your questions had been discussed by the core team for this past few months I believe. There is not definite answer to some of your questions yet, we still need to wait for the right timing when our core team decide to make a clear announcement of MODx. Well, it will be the same way when Joomla make their announcement to Mamboo community. Whatever the decision is, I will try as much as I could to understand and follow it.

As far as flexibility goes, yes we do have a very flexible system, except for the fact that we are too flexible, so nobody ever come up with a full-blown solution that can be integrated right away, because everybody can come up with their own solution. We might need to think a better way to handle this force, so all the forces can be contracted into the same plan to come up with a good and flexible solution to be deployed on top of MODx.

In terms of performance, we might still looking for some expert in that field. We have our security expert named netnoise, we might founf another expert in performance issue. All we need now is getting as much developer and designer (advanced users) to MODx community, so we can speed up the development process and ensuring all the bugs, reliability, speed, security and etc being taken care of.

@edge,

Web Bloggers / Hobbyist’s /Small business user
People who do it themselves, some with good skills other with very limited skills. Those who need a basic few pages could use google. Those who understand advantages of MOdx will go that route. Modx could target this market better by de-skilling product set-up. For example, automated install based on choosing options and pre-designed templates with a pre-hosted solution maybe at very cheap monthly hosting rate. (Or start with free hosting to test market)

I think in terms of automation, we will never be able to beat Google. I’m not pesimistic, but they have enough resource to ensure that they have the right automation tools to be easily used by the most un-computer people. I would say they have enough resource to do the survey, change the system architect, redesigning the interface, re-bundling the system, and retested it again, and do the survey again and so on. Which in our case, our main advantage will be the consultant part. Most automation software that currently big company are trying to aim for doesn’t have a good skilled person behind it to handle customer in person or directly. I think this will be our advantage.

But if we are talking about this, the cost of computer expert/consultant is very2 expensive, so instead of thinking a way to cut cost, we can aim at a more higher market, so that we don’t have to cut the cost of our consulting service, but we need to find a positive advanatge to reach this target market.

Wow... I think I’m going too much now. It’s all up to the person/company itself who use MODx/Tattoo. Same system and idea can be used in different way by different person/company. So it all comes down to us, how are we going to use MODx/Tattoo. I believe most of OpenSource software evolution is beinf drives by the people who use the software, but the most significant evolution is being caused by the core team. Believe me, they have the right to turn MODx into something else, they might turn it into a photo gallery system or maybe a forum system, why not? Heheheee...

Djamoer, your absolutey correct, consulting is probably where our advantage is, we should already be aiming for a more commercial market as it stands.

However looking from a marketing perspective I think we could win more people over (of any market) once we have solid answers to these questions, if we have something clear for potential clients to see the pros and cons of MODx over other systems. Something where potential clients can see at a glance.

For example, its super charged template variables, widgets, snippets and chunks system.

even though google has the resources a few things may turn them off.

* MODx can become the clients own software, hosted on their own, whereas google hosts everything on google servers, google may change their policies or software in a way the client may not like. for instance, possibly introduce fees later on. So client has limited control.

Maybe Im just ranting at something thats already being worked upon....I just noticed MODx Nov 2005 and can see the huge potential it has, if it can address as many issues in a clear way.

Cheers..

Right, I’ve followed this thread from the start and now it’s the weekend (woohoo!), I can collect my thoughts on this ...

Quote from: edge at Feb 23, 2006, 09:28 PM

I am also convinced that once google maps is a must use application by everyone there will be a revenue business model somewhere behind it.

Good point, edge! There’s most definitely a revenue model there lurking in the background, and I’m also certain that Google have a very clever marketing strategy. It’s what I would consider a diversification marketing strategy and very much centred around a twist of the supply-demand cycle.

Now I’m currently working in local government in the UK and very much involved in the whole e-Government drive we have in the UK at the moment. A neighbouring local government organisation recently paid $50k for a Google Search Appliance because there was a demand for better searchability of information - and that’s where Google marketing strategy is succeeding, if there’s demand then organisations will follow even if comparative services are free to your average web user.

Quote from: Djamoer at Feb 23, 2006, 09:42 PM

Another bad news, with the current product offering, we can’t even compete with all those big enterprise CMS system out there, which leave us stucked in the middle with no target market at all.

Currently, yes, we can’t go head to head with enterprise CMS systems. However, from my viewpoint, that’s only because we lack a few key features (eg. publishing workflow) but none of them are mountains to climb. I think Wendy mentioned in another thread that MODx is a Content Management Framework in addition to a CMS - I think that’s a key emphasis of how MODx should market itself. MODx has the opportunity, and the capability, to slot into a very exclusive niche market just below the enterprise CMS level. There are plenty of companies out there wanting the capacity that enterprise CMS systems can offer but don’t/won’t pay the capital costs involved in these systems. Is that not the foothold that MODx needs to seriously contend with the enterprise CMS systems? (at the time of writing )

Quote from: Djamoer at Feb 24, 2006, 02:42 AM

As far as flexibility goes, yes we do have a very flexible system, except for the fact that we are too flexible, so nobody ever come up with a full-blown solution that can be integrated right away, because everybody can come up with their own solution.

I wouldn’t say too flexible, just perhaps now there’s a need for a bit more control over the direction of some of the developments. One of the things I’m used to is working groups, where ideas can be collaborated and channeled into a clear direction. Since I joined this community (only just over a month ago ) I have seen a major growth in the community and the skills at offer. Are we at a time where working groups are a viable option considering the depth of skills that this community is starting to gain?

In my view, working groups could be utilised to collate, manage and deliver key developments in a format to slot into the framework - allowing the core developers to concentrate on what they do best

Quote from: stempy at Feb 24, 2006, 10:55 PM

* MODx can become the clients own software, hosted on their own, whereas google hosts everything on google servers, google may change their policies or software in a way the client may not like. for instance, possibly introduce fees later on. So client has limited control.

Stempy, I think you hit the nail on the head there. I doubt, unless Google offers some form of a open hosting arrangement, that it will offer the flexilibity that a CMF can deliver. Also, there has been a wide variety of discussions over Google’s policies (namely, privacy) and that could be a real showstopper for Google in terms of corporate/enterprise market penetration in the future. And, in my view, there will be less of a demand from the average web user for an organisation to use a particular CMF/S than there is for the search/email/mapping utilities.

Well, that’s my rant for the day, sorry if it seems like a delayed reaction to some of the stuff that has been said but I just had to say it anyway I think everybody is raising so many valid and excellent points in this discussion, definitely food for thought.