The Ditto Manual, just might be crappy.

Well, coming from other CMSes to MODx, docs make it hard. But smaller teams usually means less frequently updated docs. I think more ’applied, real world usage’ example snippet calls and howtos on the Wiki will make a huge difference.

Some snippets can’t even be found on the Wiki, like NewsPublisher.

Also, a brief overview of ’how it all works together’ will help with the ’go there, paste chunk, go there, add parameter to snippet call’ mess. If the MODx guys had a vision, visualize it!


The things that makes MODx great is that it is dynamic. If you don’t have fixed ’like it or don’t use it’ extensions like Joomla, the new MODx user should be able to find info on how to implement something better himself. Otherwise he could go: ’Too much work, and the result isn’t better. F this.’

You can count on that I will put up tutorials and screencast when I’ve aquired the knowledge! But it would still be better if it was collected in the official repository of docs, rather than spread out over the web.

Quote from: Henrik at Feb 17, 2008, 09:09 AM

Well, coming from other CMSes to MODx, docs make it hard. But smaller teams usually means less frequently updated docs. I think more ’applied, real world usage’ example snippet calls and howtos on the Wiki will make a huge difference.

Agreed! MODx is different and takes approaching content management differently that with most other CMS’s. How ’bout joining this "smaller" team and making it bigger (i.e. help update the docs)?

Quote from: Henrik at Feb 17, 2008, 09:09 AM

Some snippets can’t even be found on the Wiki, like NewsPublisher.

First of all, the wiki is not an official part of MODx; it is hosted and supported by an individual in the community. It is meant for user contributions. Feel free to contribute NewsPublisher information there. I think the expectation of documentation is simply a result of confusion stemming from the fact that some add-ons early adopters of MODx saw as critical are included in the core distribution, and that there is not yet enough true separation of core and component in the current architecture.

Quote from: Henrik at Feb 17, 2008, 09:09 AM

Also, a brief overview of ’how it all works together’ will help with the ’go there, paste chunk, go there, add parameter to snippet call’ mess. If the MODx guys had a vision, visualize it!

The things that makes MODx great is that it is dynamic. If you don’t have fixed ’like it or don’t use it’ extensions like Joomla, the new MODx user should be able to find info on how to implement something better himself. Otherwise he could go: ’Too much work, and the result isn’t better. F this.’

Last I checked, MODx is Open Source and we welcome contributions from everyone. I most definitely have a vision, and so do many other MODx team members; and we’re working and investing countless hours doing thankless tasks to keep that vision alive as well as help incorporate others ideas to keep it fresh and agile. But being an Open Source product means as an adopter, you have a certain responsibility to put back in what you take out it, and that includes helping to shape this community vision (as you are doing even by just posting about this).

The real challenge here is that often times, how it all works together is very specific to the add-on/extension being employed, and this is where I am going to stand firm in differentiating MODx from other CMS’s (even though I already consider us in a different category from those, i.e. CMF). MODx IS NOT the add-ons you use in it, nor are the add-ons you use MODx. The MODx project moving forward will be emphasizing this fact, and there will be an even clearer line between the MODx Core and anything that is considered an add-on or extension. We will still incubate specific add-on/extension projects under the MODx team, and in fact, this is where I will be focusing a majority of my energy once we get past this next major release, because, if we don’t attract quality web developers to the project, we’ll have no chance at gaining a chunk of the more traditional CMS market which expects tools that are "ready to use" right "out of the box".

Quote from: Henrik at Feb 17, 2008, 09:09 AM

You can count on that I will put up tutorials and screencast when I’ve aquired the knowledge! But it would still be better if it was collected in the official repository of docs, rather than spread out over the web.

We certainly look forward to your contributions and participation in MODx knowledge-sharing. And sure it would be better to be able to find everything you need in one place, though I still do not agree that 3rd-party add-ons should be expected to have documentation hosted with the MODx core documentation. But they should certainly be easier to find while also being more easily linked to the core docs. This will improve as we introduce more formal API docs, add-on packaging, development tools, and best-practices. More on what all we’ve been doing behind the scenes to address all of this very soon.

I’m about to change career and move, on top of which my spare time has been promised to two other communities. When I’m back on track and have control over the spare time left me after work, I intend to contribute.

I could do some small stuff, but I feel I don’t have the overview knowledge quite yet. Also, I have yet to finish an entire site in MODx. Both those I feel is required to say I can contribute correct howtos etc.

I’m sorry about the Wiki assumption. Just assumed it was simply the repos. of docs for MODx since it was hosted at the same domain. As Steven Seagal would tell you, ’assumption if the mother of all f-ups’

About third-party plugins: surely the plugins that come with an install are not third party? If so, I guess I didn’t read the snippet comment properly. Still, official docs for the plugins included is essential.


Now, why I say this is not to attack MODx but my view of what someone that comes from another CMS absolutely needs. If I hadn’t learned the basics of php and could modify some plugins, I would have simply shrugged and tried Joomla 1.5, now that it’s finally here.

What MODx gives is control, but if a webdev can’t even _learn_ all the ins and outs to get that control, we risk losing him/her to a ready-made CMS while he googles for hours on end on how to (this is my prime example) do a two level call without having to have caching on one of the levels. [[ [! !] ]], so to speak.

And what I meant by overview and vision was some form of back-to-basics introduction that takes you from explanation of the MODx-only terms (snippet, chunk...) to a finished reasonably usable site. Screenshots of a site with arrow stating "These Front page articles were gathered by Ditto", "this sidebar random image gallery was made with MaxiGallery", with links to example calls and parameter list, and the actual procedure to go from installed plugin to implementation. (Using some downloadable install package that the user can perform the procedure on.)

I will see what I can do to make time to expand the Beginner’s Tutorials on the Wiki or help with localization of 0.9.7 to Swedish - but I bet you already have excellent Swedish members, Swe guys like well designed things, just wish it could be made clear at-a-glance how powerful it can be. If one has the knowledge.

Henrik,

The walkthrough you’re talking about is exactly the topic for a book under consideration right now. Just trying to find the bandwidth to be able to commit to a publishing schedule.

Hmm, sounds interesting Is it some pay per chapter thing? Please tell us more if you can.

Just a normal treeware book.

Quote from: rthrash at Feb 17, 2008, 06:23 PM

Henrik,

The walkthrough you’re talking about is exactly the topic for a book under consideration right now. Just trying to find the bandwidth to be able to commit to a publishing schedule.

Bandwidth? Under consideration? Is it written yet?

Bandwidth = finding time to commit to the project

Under consideration = if the time found, serious consideration as to whether that available time will be available for the full publishing schedule

Is it written yet = not even a complete outline exists

Under consideration = if the time found, serious consideration as to whether that available time will be available for the full publishing schedule

Would it not be better to plan this for 097 or 1.0 release. The reason I say so is that many things will change (from what I understood). The book would become outdated very fast at this point, or is having 2 books part of the plan

Where can I sign-up for the first edition pre-sales?

Books on software are always going out of date. You don’t ever delay the writing of a book based on its inherent obsolescence.

I could be wrong here but a book on MODx 097 seems to make sense. Open source books often predate a 1.0. The more books, the more users, the more users the more contributers and the more contributers, the more releases.

My personal opinion is that a book to come out in conjunction with 097 would be perfect. It would be perfect timing to match the release and give users a way to get up to speed with a procedure/tips and tricks type manual.