MOdx 0.97 and extJS

How many times have you modified the manager in the current MODx? If you did so, how did you maintain an upgrade path between revisions? 0.9.7 and beyond will continue you let you build sites as you’ve always built them in MODx. We chose to implement the manager using ExtJS and Smarty because it’s a good tool for the Manager—tons of forms and data manipulation with a complex user access system. That doesn’t mean it’s how you have to build or how we’d recommend building most public-facing websites. But for this particular problem it made sense and saved us a lot of time.

Quote from: Moondawgy at May 18, 2008, 11:12 PM

The reason I ask is that looking at the manager ’templates’ and all the js - it looks like formatting is contained in the actual js itself.

Actually, most of the formatting is contained in the CSS for this particular template, which is based on ExtJS 2.1.

However, that’s beside the point - manager templates in 0.9.7 don’t have to use ExtJS at all. We just did for the default template, because we found Ext to have a lot of usability benefits. Try dragging resources in the tree to sort and move them and you’ll agree.

What that doesn’t mean is that all 097 manager templates from here on out have to use Ext. In fact, none do. They can if they want - but they dont have to. You could create a manager template with mootools, jQuery, or just straight HTML forms and CSS. You could do it with LOLCODE for all that it matters.

Designers such as myself who have been coding in standards/css since year dot come to modx as it is so bloody easy to build sites in without much of an idea of the code behind it. We are not held back in any way at present and this is a huge USP for modx and the reason I have turned so many of my peers to it.

Sure. There’s no limitation in the front-end; ExtJS is not preloaded in the front-end, nor will it ever be. It is only for the default manager template. Designing sites with 097 is the same templating system (with some minor tag syntax changes). You don’t need to even use JS in your front-end at all.

Most of us here are not developers, we all have our roles in life and skill sets. Sure, we know enough to hack snippets to perhaps get a certain result a project requires, but looking how this incarnation of the manager is constructed it is very heavy for non experienced js people.

You shouldn’t have to look at any JS code to create a site in 0.9.7. I don’t understand this point. Do you mean for creating manager templates or a site?

Would it not of been easier for the end user to have those js functions presented in a similar format as the current chunk or TV calls and let the designer then style those via css. What are the benefits of going this way?

Uhm - a draggable tree, windows that can be reused anywhere, grids that allow for pagination, enhanced editing features, quicker saving and load times, etc. Also, it was much easier to implement these usability features into the manager using Ext’s wonderful capabilities and toolset.

I could go on, but you’ll just have to use 0.9.7 first.

The main user base of modx use it because of its ease of use.

And for the main user base, that will just get easier. I don’t see at all how 097 makes it harder - the usability is way improved.

One of the things we are/were looking for was a improved manager which is accessible, with the ability to be treated like the frontend templating methods and using a bit of js for some ajax operations.

Again, like said above, there have been discussions about creating a 508-accessible manager interface by third party devs. 097 makes such a creation possible.

Thanks for the reply SR - it was all concerning the manager interface, not the front end.

Please do not get me wrong, I really love all the features that you all have been implementing into 0.97 and beyond. It is a wonderful CMS?F, but for me personally I would just like to see a plain html/css version of the manager in the alpha first so that as you say, us 3rd party devs can get our hands dirty now and start the process of creating manager interfaces without all the .js - but without understanding the core, I do not see how I can at present.

I am alluding to perhaps 2 versions of the alpha default template, one with js and smarty and one ’plain’ one. Or just a point in the right direction perhaps. Is that possible for the team or would not be a priority at the moment? Quite a few posts allude to the fact you can use what you want, but how?

Quote from: Moondawgy at May 18, 2008, 11:12 PM

Would it not of been easier for the end user to have those js functions presented in a similar format as the current chunk or TV calls and let the designer then style those via css. What are the benefits of going this way?

This has been raised and extensively discussed, and if you want to go deeper you can find additionnal answers here : 0.9.7 Manager templating

As said earlier in this thread, there will be a stripped down version of the manager, and when we get started on it we’ll ask for contributors, I for one will try to work on an iPhone version (if I can pull it off, if not I’ll call for help and create a workgroup). I find the extJS + Smarty default template very fast and usable so far I am pretty happy with it and I think my clients won’t have any trouble with it.

This being said, I might work on a different version for them, less bound by extJS default look...

Thanks David, I did read those but the answer still seems to be the same.

You can use what you want for the manager etc etc.

All I am asking for is perhaps some help from the person on the team responsible for the manager UI to show us how to create a plain html/css based default theme, so myself and the community can start work on creating accessible and much more easier to skin the manager without having to learn extjs and smarty.

Mooondawgy, I must ask, you have a completely new 097 to start understanding, and the first thing you want to do is customizing the back end?

At least I would wait with that kind of "advanced" stuff until there is some documentation on it. And I hope that making tutorials for creating your own manager (or making two managers ) is *not* the devs first priority.

Getting the first beta out and some tutorials on best way of using the new api for creating snippets seems at least for me more important.

Just my opinion!

I appreciate your feedback Uncle thank you but no I have been using 0.97 for a while now in SVN pre alpha and now the actual alpha. I have no worries and confidence in the dev team that the snippets and core will be first class and marketing leading as usual.

My opinion is that the current 0.97 default manager template needs to be css/html with a sprinkling of js, so with js off it is still accessible.

Having ported some sites that are in production to a test server to see the difference etc from 0.96 to .97 for our own uses, we opened those up to current site owners/clients to get feedback on the new manager in its default form over the last few weeks with open days in our offices.

Majority consensus was the the 0.96 default manager theme/processes were preferred.

One of these ’hamsters’ was a lady who we made an educational charity site for that helps a 3rd world children. Part of that project involves the children using the manager to add news/images - all running on dial up in the ’bush’ on 5 year old machines running Ubuntu. It was tested out there and the machines nearly went kaput due to the .js.

One of the others was a client who owns one of the worlds largest risk management software houses, they have spent lots of money on getting there UI right for the desktop apps they run and has become quite an expert. He also thought that the new default manager could do with a ’simpler’ version. Using that feedback and more from the open day, my own experience and my other design partners, I thought I would come to the board and post.

So with that in mind, this is why I am asking if we could get working on this now, the manager is used by people day in and day out - the simpler the better, the less js the better, the more accessible the better.

The emphasis should be on ease of content creation and management, not if users can drag and drop the menu.

So please can we work towards a non js version sooner rather than later so that the community can start to feedback manager templates based on the core team creating a ’vanilla’ version of said manager.

Sorry, I just feel this is important and passionate about accessibility due to family history.

I have no doubts that there will be an accessible manager down the line.

Keep in mind current 0.9.7 status is alpha, and also 0.9.7 is not an incremental improvement over 0.9.6.x but rather a big leap forward as the rev number does not reflect. This explains most of us - including the testing team and key contributors - are getting familiar with 0.9.7 at the moment.

Give us time and with luck we’ll be able to pull off an accessible manager theme upon the final release or shortly after. I assume you won’t be using a beta in production, much less an alpha, are you ? Anyway, as I said personnally I’d like to see an iPhone/smartphone manager which means digging into the manager template system is one of the first thing on my list along with translation. I guess I won’t be the only designer to explore this - for others branding the manager will be of interrest - while coders get to grips with translating their addons to 0.9.7.

We have a passionnate and skillful community, I wouldn’t worry too much about this

Quote from: Uncle68 at May 19, 2008, 10:12 AM

And I hope that making tutorials for creating your own manager (or making two managers ) is *not* the devs first priority.

It’s a goal, yes, but you are right - it’s not a high priority. That is why we chose Ext - it allowed us to not spend as much time on developing the UI and instead focus on more of the core features.

To all:
Again, I’ve said it many times before - this is an open source app. You get what you put into it. We’ve built 097 so that it *can* do all that you’re asking - but that doesn’t mean us core devs are going to do it for you. It’s simply not time efficient. If you want a simpler manager, then I strongly suggest contributing in some way to 097 development. This is a community - not a developer request hotline.