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  • http://svn.modxcms.com/docs/display/revolution/Creating+a+Subdomain+from+a+Folder+using+Virtual+Hosts

    huh

    I tried an earlier alpha of Rev, but gave up as I couldn’t get far without adequate docs.

    So, I tried again just now with beta three.

    My main initial motivations to move to rev from evo sooner rather than later is Contexts - specifically, using them to manage subdomains with language specific content, and also to manage different domains from a single manager.

    But, even the docs that are there now can’t be followed.

    Specifically:


    From there, go ahead and right-click on the "dev" Context in the tree, and click "Update Context". From here we’ll see our Context Settings grid. You’ll need to add a few settings:

    * site_start - Set this to the ID of your "Dev Home" resource.
    * base_url - Set this to "/" (no quotes) since we’re making the root of the URL our base.
    * http_host - Set this to "dev.modxcms.com"
    * site_url - Set this to "http://dev.modxcms.com/". Don’t forget the trailing slash. Remember this setting is (scheme+http_host+base_url).
    [/QUOTE]

    There is no Update option on right click - I presume you mean "edit"? Then, adding a few settings - try to look at this from the perspective of someone who didn’t code it - where and how do I add them? I mean, I drilled down into "Create New" under Context Settings, and I get a bunch of empty input fields, and it is not at all obvious how I should use them to follow the tutorial.

    ?
    • Quote from: towerofbabel at Sep 07, 2009, 08:23 PM

      But, even the docs that are there now can’t be followed.

      Specifically:


      From there, go ahead and right-click on the "dev" Context in the tree, and click "Update Context". From here we’ll see our Context Settings grid. You’ll need to add a few settings:

      * site_start - Set this to the ID of your "Dev Home" resource.
      * base_url - Set this to "/" (no quotes) since we’re making the root of the URL our base.
      * http_host - Set this to "dev.modxcms.com"
      * site_url - Set this to "http://dev.modxcms.com/". Don’t forget the trailing slash. Remember this setting is (scheme+http_host+base_url).
      [/QUOTE]

      There is no Update option on right click - I presume you mean "edit"? Then, adding a few settings - try to look at this from the perspective of someone who didn’t code it - where and how do I add them? I mean, I drilled down into "Create New" under Context Settings, and I get a bunch of empty input fields, and it is not at all obvious how I should use them to follow the tutorial.
      Edit and Update are generally considered synonymous, so yes, we mean Edit Context. You create new Context Settings the same way you would New System Settings. If you are not familiar with the feature, try adding one and see the result. It’s not that difficult to figure out: key and value are all that really matter when entering simple Settings.

      We’ll update the documentation when we have time, though currently with only two or three of us developing and documenting everything in Revo, we’d love to have some volunteers to help fill out the documentation. Besides, the developers should not be doing the documentation IMO anyway.
      • Quote from: OpenGeek at Sep 08, 2009, 02:52 AM

        Edit and Update are generally considered synonymous, so yes, we mean Edit Context. You create new Context Settings the same way you would New System Settings. If you are not familiar with the feature, try adding one and see the result. It’s not that difficult to figure out: key and value are all that really matter when entering simple Settings.

        Yo gave me vital information that is not available, or is obscured, in the docs: (i) new system settings works the same (I can learn by example), and (ii) key and value are the important fields for this task.

        Quote from: OpenGeek at Sep 08, 2009, 02:52 AM

        We’ll update the documentation when we have time, though currently with only two or three of us developing and documenting everything in Revo, we’d love to have some volunteers to help fill out the documentation. Besides, the developers should not be doing the documentation IMO anyway.

        Well, I’d be happy to write some guides for non-programmers once I work out stuff, but, I need to be able to understand it first.

        I haven’t even raised the issue of the localization stuff yet, but that documentation (last time I looked) is just plain cryptic.

        It is clear that MODx revolution is not CMS looking to compete with, say, wordpress for user base. But it is important to realize that part of your user base is people like me, who are quite technically proficient, who work on web dev daily even, but are not php programmers. The docs, even the initial ones that you guys write, have to reflect this, otherwise the user base will just stick with Evolution and Revolution will be the mystical sibling with powers no one understands.
        • Quote from: towerofbabel at Sep 08, 2009, 03:36 AM

          Well, I’d be happy to write some guides for non-programmers once I work out stuff, but, I need to be able to understand it first.

          I haven’t even raised the issue of the localization stuff yet, but that documentation (last time I looked) is just plain cryptic.

          It is clear that MODx revolution is not CMS looking to compete with, say, wordpress for user base. But it is important to realize that part of your user base is people like me, who are quite technically proficient, who work on web dev daily even, but are not php programmers. The docs, even the initial ones that you guys write, have to reflect this, otherwise the user base will just stick with Evolution and Revolution will be the mystical sibling with powers no one understands.
          As mentioned elsewhere in similar discussions, we have to target and attract component developers that will be motivated to create Add-Ons for Revolution that can themselves be targeted at non-PHP developers. The whole point of MODx IMO is to provide a framework for PHP-skilled developers and HTML/CSS designers to construct CMS solutions targeted at their specific customers.

          And we’ll need non-developers to explore, ask questions, and document what they find in the meantime, as you are doing now.
          • Quote from: OpenGeek at Sep 08, 2009, 04:06 AM

            The whole point of MODx IMO is to provide a framework for PHP-skilled developers and HTML/CSS designers to construct CMS solutions targeted at their specific customers.

            And we’ll need non-developers to explore, ask questions, and document what they find in the meantime, as you are doing now.

            Opengeek,

            I don’t want to argue, but I do want to see revolution become part of my setup ASAP, so I want to contend this point.

            The whole concept of a CMS breaks the traditional dichotomy between what a developer is and isn’t.

            You include html/css designers in your description of who the MODx framework is for - so that is exactly me - I have fully developed around 20 MODx Evolution sites by now as a freelancer and at my day job.

            I am an HTML/CSS "developer" and I work on content marketing solutions for companies - the way I see it, MODx is perfect for my skill set - I deal with content, html, js, and css and, using MODx placeholders and calls, I get MODx to take care of the php scripting for me. When I need something custom, I get one of my programmers to do it.

            Now, that means my comments should be considered as coming from your target audience, not from a "non-developer". Whether or not I can write scripts to extend the core is beside the point - I essentially just need MODx + Ditto + PHx to build 90% of sites anyway.

            I understand that you need developers to extend the core with plugins and functionality, but please do not overlook the potentially large audience of SEOs and other people working with site development who are not php programmers, but also are not n00bie "non-developers". Maybe you are not aware of just how perfect MODx is (at least in Evolution) for this "middle group" of CMS/framework users.

            Anyway, I will be trying to document things in a more plain language way as I struggle through the new concepts and existing documentation.
            • MODx is not perfect for your skillset. The components developers have contributed to the MODx platform are perfect for your skillset.

              And I’m not arguing; I’m explaining the purpose and strengths of MODx for both PHP developers and HTML/CSS designers, along with the current priorities of the project. The way MODx separates code and presentation is the important point. It allows the PHP developers to do what they do best while providing a way for designers to do what they do best. But Ditto and other components are not MODx. They are add-ons developed by independent PHP developers so HTML/CSS designers such as yourself can get the most out of the framework without coding themselves. If you want the ease of use of you now have with Evo in Revo, it’s going to take time (and patience) for PHP developers to contribute (for free I might add) what has been done already for Evo, only with even more potential and flexibility for both of the primary roles that are involved in its use. But for the moment, my primary concern is making sure the PHP developers are attracted to the platform so we have components even better than Ditto, Wayfinder and whatever else, and not everyone has to learn PHP to make the most out of it. Once that task is properly completed, then we can focus on documentation, marketing, and the other role( s ) involved in the web development process.

              For perspective, I never use Ditto; as a PHP developer I provide custom scripts for my designers to work with that are targeted for specific tasks (and thus are more efficient at accomplishing those tasks). This is what differentiates MODx from other popular CMS products in my view. MODx is not about pre-fab solutions; it’s about being able to develop exactly what is needed for the task at hand. And until I can convince enough PHP developers that they need to be developing components for Revo instead of Evo, it is pointless for me to worry about targeting other users. The two or three of us currently working on the core, the documentation, AND the components is not going to cut it.
              • Quote from: OpenGeek at Sep 08, 2009, 07:12 AM

                MODx is not perfect for your skillset. The components developers have contributed to the MODx platform are perfect for your skillset.

                And I’m not arguing; I’m explaining the purpose and strengths of MODx for both PHP developers and HTML/CSS designers, along with the current priorities of the project. The way MODx separates code and presentation is the important point. It allows the PHP developers to do what they do best while providing a way for designers to do what they do best. But Ditto and other components are not MODx. They are add-ons developed by independent PHP developers so HTML/CSS designers such as yourself can get the most out of the framework without coding themselves. If you want the ease of use of you now have with Evo in Revo, it’s going to take time (and patience) for PHP developers to contribute (for free I might add) what has been done already for Evo, only with even more potential and flexibility for both of the primary roles that are involved in its use. But for the moment, my primary concern is making sure the PHP developers are attracted to the platform so we have components even better than Ditto, Wayfinder and whatever else, and not everyone has to learn PHP to make the most out of it. Once that task is properly completed, then we can focus on documentation, marketing, and the other role( s ) involved in the web development process.

                For perspective, I never use Ditto; as a PHP developer I provide custom scripts for my designers to work with that are targeted for specific tasks (and thus are more efficient at accomplishing those tasks). This is what differentiates MODx from other popular CMS products in my view. MODx is not about pre-fab solutions; it’s about being able to develop exactly what is needed for the task at hand. And until I can convince enough PHP developers that they need to be developing components for Revo instead of Evo, it is pointless for me to worry about targeting other users. The two or three of us currently working on the core, the documentation, AND the components is not going to cut it.

                I still think you are maintaining a dichotomies that don’t exist in real-world applications of your work (developer vs. non-developer; MODx vs. Extensions of MODx), there are large amounts of gray area there. But, I truly do understand that in terms of workload, you guys can’t manage it all simultaneously.

                About the tutorial I started the thread with:

                I also read another thread here where a php developer was commenting on the documentation generally, as with the programmer I work with here, so I know, despite your assumptions, it is not an issue here of php programmer / non-programmer in terms of understanding the tutorial I began the thread with. For instance, the more technical issues of setting up a Virtual Host in httpd.conf are totally fine with me - I have done it many many times. the problem is the missing steps and assumptions made when you are close to code and think things are obvious.

                Anyway, I am not all talk - once I get this sorted for myself, and I also try to dive into the localization stuff, I will write some more complete docs for them from a different experience level.

                And also: thanks for your work! You guys made using a CMS a creative process for me smiley