Pretty easy, huh?

Quote from: redplanet at Nov 18, 2010, 05:07 AM

Quote from: rthrash at Oct 29, 2010, 08:18 AM

Evo will be maintained for years to come ...

That’s quite a relief as, to be honest, I don’t need to upgrade certain sites and also don’t actually want to upgrade some. Reason being that certain clients understandably aren’t be responsive to paying for upgrades which won’t fundamentally improve what they already have.

I presume that ongoing Evo support covers only core code, and that snippet/mod writers should update/secure independently of any ’official’ modx core team support. Would this be on or near the mark?

A real concern of mine has been that a vulnerability is found for Evo after support has finished, and a client’ site is hacked/broken.

I am somewhat concerned about future vulnerabities too. And I’ve sworn at Revo every day this week, even though I think it’s generally great. (If I think of it as beta-ish, I don’t mind as much) But actually this issue faces any system, not just MODx, and if this issue became too compelling, no one would do a big upgrade, even if it were called for. A little scary, though.

Frank - even though I don’t use the front-end editor, thanks for the good laugh !!! ["Eh, front-end editor?"]

CIPA - great code excerpt - Thanks!!!!!!

Quote from: brianlarson at Nov 18, 2010, 10:55 AM

I personally have a lot of confidence in the MODx team that security issues will definitely be taken care of in updates to Evo as needed. On that note, I believe 1.0.5 is to come out soon. Two versions of MODx--all the more to love I say.

:)

I def have confidence in modx too. I wasn’t aware of a 1.0.5 issue, thought it would be stopping at 1.0.4

Quote from: samba at Nov 18, 2010, 12:53 PM

I am somewhat concerned about future vulnerabities too

Not nearly as much as we are. I’ll reiterate, we’ll continue to maintain Evo, and making improvements that make sense to keep it in line with and a good candidate for a future migration to Revo.

As Revo matures, your fears and concerns will disappear over migrations, and if your solution works fine in Evo, then you’re in great shape to continue working in it because we’re maintaining it as one of our core products..

And I’ve sworn at Revo every day this week, even though I think it’s generally great. (If I think of it as beta-ish, I don’t mind as much)

We’d really love to know what’s frustrating so we can prioritize improvements. 2.0.5 already has over 105 ready to roll and there’s a few more we’re trying to wrap up before release.

Quote from: rthrash at Nov 21, 2010, 08:31 AM

And I’ve sworn at Revo every day this week, even though I think it’s generally great. (If I think of it as beta-ish, I don’t mind as much)

We’d really love to know what’s frustrating so we can prioritize improvements. 2.0.5 already has over 105 ready to roll and there’s a few more we’re trying to wrap up before release.

Ryan,
You and the gang have done a stellar job of managing the 1-to-2 big change. That has gotten lost in all the excitement. Way better than other CMS’s have, which have total freakouts and revolts, and that’s partly why I’m here.

I’ve done my share of Revo whining on various topics, and I may summarize that in a blog post so it doesn’t take up space here. See, some of my minor beefs are structural - stuff that’s inherent, so I don’t see it changing. Philosophical differences, where there isn’t a right or wrong, and it’s water under the dam anyway. Nomenclature... having a manager interface that’s really hot for developers but a little wacky for clients. The "coders that be" are understandably defensive on these issues.

And then there’s smaller specific stuff, like "Save" buttons on docs way far away from the rest of the commands, sort of frozen in Ajax space until you realize where they are.... Ability to accidentally delete critical Content Types (yes, I deleted HTML, trying to change the suffix, and boom, site was all dead until I had the DB repaired; remaking the Content Type didn’t work, hard-coding in a few places, no doubt... When editing a page, sometimes extra tabbing needed to enable the Save button, kind of hinky... I also don’t like the interface for system settings, but I can live with it (probably a major big deal I guess).... The package updater (which is a very positive thing in general!) has some funny prompting - you’re presented with a prompt choice, but then whoa, it installs anyway, usually it works fine, but then maybe messages that look like it didn’t work. ... I’m still baffled with User Permissions even with instructions, but I hear that’s being worked on..... Use of tiny unlabelled icons for commands (not everybody has 20/20 eyesight, for instance).... manager is very slow for editing documents.

And of course I’m leaving out all the great stuff.
Thanks!

Quote from: rthrash at Nov 21, 2010, 08:31 AM

and if your solution works fine in Evo, then you’re in great shape to continue working in it because we’re maintaining it as one of our core products..

That’s great news, thanks for letting us know Ryan.
I am also having a couple of what I think are buggy issues with Revo, I’ll post them in the relevant place - otherwise it’s fantastic!

Quote from: rthrash at Nov 21, 2010, 08:31 AM

We’d really love to know what’s frustrating so we can prioritize improvements. 2.0.5 already has over 105 ready to roll and there’s a few more we’re trying to wrap up before release.

Manager speed. It’s a killer, really really. I am new to all this and so do, I admit, have to thrash around a bit "you’re in a dark room", but after recently using Evolution I am reluctant to go back to battling the Evolution manager.

This must be priority number one, the rest of it kind of works, get the manager sorted. There must be (he says in complete ignorance) one big reason why manager is so slow, it’s not that different to other CMS managers.

And the other is the lack of front end. I do work for one client who has prompted me to learn MODx and they are moderately technically literate and can cope with editing in Manager. I have another client, used to Wordpress who is completely lost. CMS is not for developers like me, it’s for my clients.

I think this makes the usual programmer/user dichotomy even more pronounced - it’s a quadchotomy (sic), you the inventors of this much wondrous system, me the designer/developer, the client who manages the content and the web user. At the moment manager is much too geeky for content managers - the facebook, blogger of this world.

Yeah, I will jump on this one too:

1. Manager speed: I built a couple sites using the YUI back in the day, and they were so damn heavy and slow to load that I bailed on them except for the ones that were in-house web applications. So knowing that JS Ext is a descendant of the UI makes it not surprising that the Manager is really unresponsive. I understand why you’d want to use this for architecting a rich manager, but in the real world of slow internet connections, the actual task of using the manager typically is slow and frustrating. I’ve been seriously considering building out a light-weight jQuery version of the manager optimized for regular use (permissions dumbed down, loosing about half the menu items), etc... but .... this leads me to point number 2:


2. The docs are lacking. Ouch. MODx Revo is not easily understood, even by seasoned developers, and there are precious few good tutorials or detailed explanations that adequately explain how to do certain things. Typically when I’m working with Revo, I have 3 windows open: my code editor, my site, and the rtfm.modx.com site where I am actively authoring or editing pages. I honestly thing the MODx team should devote some serious resources to categorically documenting the functionality of the system. I’ve written a lot of pages for the wikis, but it’s really a full time job. I do it because it helps me understand things better and I know it helps others understand too... but it typically revolves around the small handful of tasks that I need to complete for a given project.

So what I’m ending up doing is using Evo for normal sites, and using Revo more for web-apps and large deployments, especially sites with lots of custom data, but no question: if I had just my computer and a laptop with no internet, I wouldn’t be able to tackle Revo because the code is so much more difficult to grasp.

A lightweight manager version is a very good plan.

I don’t think that ext is the only reason why the manager feel slow. Sometimes, ajax request are done twice (most of ajax request on the package manager are done twice) and they’re not cached unless the setting has been actively set to on (cache db queries ?).

And they’re no solution yet for the tree redrawing at each page load. Not yet...

@lossendae -- very good points. I just started noticing that too...