ImmerseCMS is stepping up, let's keep an eye from now on...

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  davidm Reply #1, 19 years, 4 months ago

  For those who didn’t follow up the threads about ImmerseCMS, it’s a CMS built by Alex, the original Eto dev.
  This time around, ImmerseCMS has taken a lot from MODx concepts and especially template variables which in Immerse lingo are called Page Fields.
  
  But let’s get to the point. I had an eye on this product, since it’s handy for me to know what the competition has in store when I have to debate, advocate or pitch clients with MODx competitive advantage. So far, my thoughts were that there was some good ideas and a nice & polished interface, but overall nothing near MODx range or at least not fit for production purposes. That was true up to beta1, which was still filled with bugs and inactive features.
  
  Things have changed. I have installed beta2 and I must say they really stepped up this time. The admin is now fully fonctionnal, clean and well though out with just enough AJAX.
  
  While they don’t have anything like @bindings, Page Fields are not tied to templates like TVs are. Instead, they’ve come up with an alternative : Page Types, which are a collection of Page Fields, and is assigned to a given page (more detail here : http://www.immersecms.org/guides/customising-content.html). Also, every Page field can be labelled as optionnal or required (content is just another Page Field). Looks like something close to the concept of Document Variables which had been discussed for the future of MODx.
  
  Other capabilities have now been implemented : an interface to maintain language translations for the admin, but more importantly a Dictonnary based multilingual system and... versionning. Oops, I almost forget "Live Edit", a QuickEdit like feature and CodePress built-in for template editing (now who is copying us )
  
  Sure, ImmerseCMS is nowhere near MODx in terms of community (I don’t even mention the awful spirit of controlled autocratic environment) and they have a scarce repository. Yet, I think it’s closer and closer to being serious competition, especially since it’s so easy to grasp the Immerse logic when you come from MODx. Of course, I know from 0.9.7 and on things will change much from the current branch and most capabilities will be matched or surpassed, yet, I thought I’d update you on this competitor’s progress...
  
  .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.
  
  

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  ZAP Reply #2, 19 years, 4 months ago

  I’ve been keeping an eye on ImmerseCMS also, and it does look like a promising, well thought-out system. The thing that jumped out at me the first time that I checked it out several months ago was how purty it is: its interface really does make you just want to touch it. Only after that did I start to explore the way that it’s structured, and I was very impressed by what seemed to me to be a clear, wholistic vision of where it was heading and novel (and sometimes more intuitive) integration of MODx-like concepts.
  
  There’s a great advantage to starting from scratch with no user base to support and yet having all of the experience that Alex has with Etomite and other projects. If it attracts enough collaborators and is able to foster a productive support community, I’d say that ImmerseCMS could rise to the level of MODx one day. But personally I doubt that this day is right around the corner, since it still has a long way to go in terms of proving itself (stability, usability) and accumulating snippets and other code to add more than basic features.
  
  Hopefully the two systems can cross-pollenate. Some ImmerseCMS ideas and methods may be worth integrating into MODx (their multilingual structure is worth studying, and their users and groups system is far more intuitive than MODx’s in my opinion), while I don’t doubt that they’ll try running MODx snippets as components in their system. Given that MODx is on the verge of a major shift soon with the 0.9.7 release, now is an excellent time to be considering core changes like this.
  
  I haven’t installed the beta2 yet, but it looks to me to be worth a try (although I really doubt that I’ll actually use it for a live site at this point, since MODx does everything I need and more and it has such a helpful and productive community behind it).
  
  On the other hand, Etomite also released a new version the other day, and as far as I can tell it’s the same-old same-old...
  "Things are not what they appear to be; nor are they otherwise." - Buddha
  
  "Well, gee, Buddha - that wasn't very helpful..." - ZAP
  
  Useful MODx links: documentation | wiki | forum guidelines | bugs & requests | info you should include with your post | commercial support options
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  splittingred Reply #3, 19 years, 4 months ago

  I would say they’re a serious competitor...but there’s a couple features in 0.9.7 that I think might put MODx leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.
  
  

  
  
  • The Tree - What we’re doing with this is really groundbreaking. Drag and drop your documents in this tree to move them anywhere or order them in their folder. Easily, intuitively manage your pages, as deep in levels as you want, all with a few mouse clicks.
  • Install Packaging - I’ll let Jason comment more on this...but imagine mix-and-matching MODx functionality to get MODx the way you want it, how you want it. Then export everything to a zip file easily. Transport in other sites/snippets/etc quickly.
  • Contexts - Run multiple MODx instances on one server and one database. Access MODx core functionality from anywhere - even outside of MODx
  • xPDO - I’m sorry, but I don’t think there’s even a comparison for this outside of MODx. Abstracted DB so you can use any type of database. Easily override and extend core components without having to modify the core. Runs 3-4 times faster than the normal DB abstraction. Easily readable, intuitive code.
  • I18n Server-Side Validation - Gets the best validation for each field, easily addable. Highlights fields directly. Uses the i18n support directly, so it doesn’t matter where you are.
  • Superior Codebase - A true MVC/C framework (model-view-controller -> connector). Isolated processing elements. Powered by an amazing Ext/mootools interface, seamlessly integrated into Smarty. Want a new manager page? Easy: create the tpl, create the controller, throw in a grid with a few lines (since it’s so abstracted now) and viola! You’ve just extended MODx past your wildest dreams.

  
  I really feel it’s going to be hard to top what 0.9.7 brings. Then again, I am pretty optimistic.
  shaun mccormick | bigcommerce mgr of software engineering, former modx co-architect | github | splittingred.com
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  davidm Reply #4, 19 years, 4 months ago

  Great input guys !
  
  @splittingred: About 0.9.7 : there are a lot of stuff we outside the dev team don’t realize yet. True we have a great summary of the concept, which are groundbreaking and breath-taking, but it’s still hard to see how things will translate into every day website building (anyway, for me who still has to learn PHP further than basics and OO too).
  
  I had toyed with a 0.9.7 alpha and then one of the first beta but things have moved a lot since then it seems.
  
  Anyway, that’s a nice summary and exactly what I was coming for : fuel for the MODx cause
  .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.
  
  

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  MODx est l'outil id
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  Ryan Thrash Reply #5, 19 years, 4 months ago

  Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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  splittingred Reply #6, 19 years, 4 months ago

  Quote from: davidm at May 16, 2007, 08:43 AM

  
  @splittingred: About 0.9.7 : there are a lot of stuff we outside the dev team don’t realize yet about what’s coming. Right now we have the concept, I had toyed with an alpha and then one of the first beta but things have moved a lot since then it seems.
  

  
  I definitely understand. We’re working hard to get an alpha out to you guys so you can start plugging away. There are definitely a lot of bugs in this version so far since we’re changing so much, and we definitely need people hacking away at it to find those. However, at its current state, until we finish the new Installer, there’s not really much to work with right now.
  
  Hopefully we’ll have an alpha out for you guys really soon. We want you to see it as much as you do. Thanks!
  shaun mccormick | bigcommerce mgr of software engineering, former modx co-architect | github | splittingred.com
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  davidm Reply #7, 19 years, 4 months ago

  Quote from: rthrash at May 16, 2007, 08:46 AM

  Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

  
  Well, as I said I don’t like the vibe there... especially Maz whom I have crossed path @Scotty’s forum and decided to drop any interaction altogether. Those who have not yet, will understand if they come accross the guy.
  
  As I said I have more than strong doubts about community dynamics and leadership... but still, we have to acknoledge the software seems promising.
  
  Quote from: splittingred at May 16, 2007, 08:47 AM

  I definitely understand. We’re working hard to get an alpha out to you guys so you can start plugging away. There are definitely a lot of bugs in this version so far since we’re changing so much, and we definitely need people hacking away at it to find those. However, at its current state, until we finish the new Installer, there’s not really much to work with right now. Hopefully we’ll have an alpha out for you guys really soon. We want you to see it as much as you do. Thanks!

  
  And it’s only normal that we don’t have all those things to chew on, I know very well you’re working hard on this and I trust the result will rock !
  It will be worth the wait no doubt
  .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.
  
  

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  sottwell Reply #8, 19 years, 4 months ago

  Whatever happens, MODx has a special community dynamic. I hope it doesn’t get spoiled with success and prosperity!
  Studying MODX in the desert - http://sottwell.com
  Tips and Tricks from the MODX Forums and Slack Channels - http://modxcookbook.com
  Join the Slack Community - http://modx.org
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  davidm Reply #9, 19 years, 4 months ago

  I really doubt it will, but then again I had the same thought back @Texpattern’s and look where they are now. The good vibe from Dean Allen’s day are way over, things are going part commercial, and I know there is forking in the air (talk of xPattern again)...
  
  The thing we have going for us is that unlike txp, MODx is not the product of a single dev and leader. We’re much less likely to go down this road. Other factors come into play, like the open minded and positive attitude of our leaders, the fact that the team is always integrating new talents keep the air coming in, and I certainly forget other items.
  .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.
  
  

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  MODx est l'outil id
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  Bravado Reply #10, 19 years, 4 months ago

  I think we can rise to the challenge. I’ve looked at the recent 0.9.7 alpha builds and I’m pretty impressed. Alot of ideas have been thrown around in the past few months. The difference between us and the competition is that alot of those ideas actually come into fruition and the 0.9.7 stuff proves it. ImmerseCMS will definitely have a market...but it won’t be the same market that MODx will have. The other major difference is that the ImmerseCMS development team is really only a couple of devs (maybe three or four); whereas MODx is a whole community of developers. No one developer rules the whole project with MODx. We’re far more flexible and far more akin to change. We listen to our users and apply changes when it makes sense. I’m just not sure if the competition can really say the same.
  
  Jeff
  Jeff Whitfield
  
  "I like my coffee hot and strong, like I like my women, hot and strong... with a spoon in them."
  

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