MODx Versus Joomla

Hi Folks.

Just wanted to get a few opinions here. I absolutely love MODx ( I was able to even grab an issue of our newsletter dedicated to it http://arketi.com/newsletter/newsletter0610.html), but I have a client that is being a bit abrasive over the issue of using MODx versus Joomla.

Little background here over the project. We’ve gotten the design approved, built the site in MODx, Going through the final stages of redirecting old pages to the new site, and editing the last bit of content, and I’d say were 95% done with the whole project. One of our client contacts is rather actively questioning our decision in using MODx (His main reason is that he said he googled "Is Joomla better than MODx" and said he found that even the founder said it wasn’t as good, and provided http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=142492 as reference. I had to point out that that was an article from 2006, and it wasn’t even up to a 1.0 release yet. Things change drastically in 4 years).

What I need is some ammo, I can talk all day from the technical aspects. For example they want to be able to change the keywords and descriptions on every page of the 300 or so page site on a whim. I set up a TV for both that makes editing it a breeze. versus the Joomla system they are using now, that has broken forms, and a myriad of other issues. I need other things to take back that don’t involve the technical aspects, as the client contacts are not the most behind the scenes tech savvy. Anything you folks want to throw out there would be greatly appreciated!

I have to say unfortunately he’s getting a lot of "drupal vs joomla vs modx vs wordpress" info from forums, and that’s pretty much like walking into a gamestop and asking a random person what’s better wii vs PS3 vs xbox360...You’ll get answers all over the board.

Thanks a TON.

The problem with the internet is that you’ll always find someone to agree with your preconceived ideas. Perhaps he should try the search "Is MODx better than Joomla" and he’ll get just as many supporting points of view as his original query.

Unfortunately I think all you’ll be able to find is anecdotal evidence and it sounds like his mind is made up anyway. People do tend to be more comfortable with what they know and can be resistant to change.

Not that it will will sway him in anyway - I started my first serious website using Joomla - it works but never again. Yes there are plenty of plugins to do what ever you want but I’d install one and it would break another one. Upgrading was a leap of faith as well, even minor upgrades seemed to break at least a couple of plugins. I dread adding content or updates being afraid that something will go wrong.

I’ve switched to MODx, currently developing two new websites and I can tweak quite easily and I’ve never just managed to break it. Despite no php experience I managed to hack the webloginpe snippet to match registration requests against a membership database - something I’d never contemplate attempting with Joomla. For my requirements the only thing that Joomla seems to do better is shopping carts. However for my requirements I’m going to move my personal website to Revo and once I’ve sussed it out I’m then going to port my Joomla site over to MODx.

Best of luck because my reading of the situation is that your client has already made up his mind what he wants. What he wants and what he needs aren’t always the same thing!!

Let us know how you get on.

Adrian

What I need is some ammo, I can talk all day from the technical aspects. For example they want to be able to change the keywords and descriptions on every page of the 300 or so page site on a whim. I set up a TV for both that makes editing it a breeze. versus the Joomla system they are using now, that has broken forms, and a myriad of other issues.

1. Set up a TV for something like additional informations in the sidebar (don`t know your layout, though). Show your client how he can create a document with content, the meta information (keywords) and visible additinal information in one place from the frontend via Quickmanager. Then show your client how he is supposed to do this in Joomla: He has to create an article, has to link to it in the menu manager, switch to modules, choose the module where the custom information is handled, click the menu item, fill in the information, save... *brrrr* Perhaps an addtional TV with type image which is placed in the header. MODx: choose image, save. Joomla: Modules->Header Image Module->tick menu item->choose image->save.

2. I wrote an article about Joomla(Google translation from german) 4 (!) years ago, the essence is still true.

Couple of suggestions:

[*] Go to a reliable third party security tracking website like Secunia and look at the reported vulnerabilities for each project they’re considering. http://secunia.com/advisories/search/ [shortcut results: MODx (10) vs Joomla (300+)]
[*] Go to a sentiment measuring service like HipRank and see what the broader Internet has to say: http://www.hiprank.com/drupal-vs-joomla-vs-modx-vs-wordpress.html

If they’re convinced the Earth is flat there’s likely not a lot you can do to change their mind unfortunately. What should be guiding their decision is whether or not the solution can be built cost effectively in whatever the platform might be. Apparently this one is a good fit for MODx, but that sort of logic doesn’t appear to hold water with them. Oh well.

This is always a difficult situation. I work in the consulting field and we are frequently presented with the question of why we selected product A vs Product B. Typically it is because the product we did choose is not the more mainstream choice. Many times it comes down to the fact that corporations are attempting to protect themselves from scrutiny or are attempting to ensure that if anything goes wrong that they have a defensible position (i.e you can’t blame me, we went with the most well known system in this market).

Be careful in trying to defend the system based on technical merit or other as they will always find contradicting information or simply not agree with your statements.

I would simply explain to them that as a development firm they need to rely on your expertise in this particular area and that based on your experience MODx (or whatever tool) is the tool that you are recommending.

I also echo the thoughts of many of the previous post and your original post - you will always find proponents of any system.

Bottom line, they need to trust your choice of application and believe you will deliver the system as agreed to.

Vortsg

Quote from: vortsg at Aug 06, 2010, 09:14 PM

Bottom line, they need to trust your choice of application and believe you will deliver the system as agreed to.

+1
They need to trust YOU first.
Otherwise, although you keep using Joomla, they will keep blaming you for any broken things on it.

When clients want a reason for your decision, you need to get to understand what the real reason is. There is always one or multiple underlying reasons... some as "stupid" as can be from your POV. Go back and do the requirements that he/she provided. Then take the two products and create a compare doc, but not technical. Show advantages in this doc to Modx or Joomla. Include costs so that a total cost of ownership is in there, especially as their requirements change.

Lastly try to see how fixed they are on Joomla. Most times if a client really , really want something and cannot be moved away from that position, it is better for you to either move on and away from that client or do what they want, (document why though with an email to them). As I’m sure you know an unhappy client is not fun to work with.

See the top 4 of my MODx Freedom posts!
http://4up2date.info/modx.html

How I sell MODx to my clients
http://4up2date.info/just-let-me-do-it.html

I think this task will be a lot easier now that there’s a MODx 2.0. I remember my first reaction to MODx was, "I’m not installing version 0.9.6 of anything."