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    • 25663 MODX Staff
    • 12,272 Posts
    I guess when you’re a big company like Microsoft, your releases never slip either? tongue

    Next release is 0.9.5 which is in active bug-squishing mode and nearing completion, and will be a tremendous leap forward. From a features standpoint it’s definitely probably worthy of a 1.5 version number, but it will not include a unified permissions system, so it’s being arbitrarily held to < 1.0.

    From what I understand, CMS Made System is a great solution indeed. But I think it tends to lean a bit more towards being a CMS, whereas MODx leans more towards being a true custom web application framework. You know what you’ll get with 1.0 with CMS Simple, and it’s a nice feature set indeed. With MODx 1.0, you’re going to get some amazing multi-cultural (done) capabilities, robust versioning (done), context switching (done) and workflow tools, not to mention a web services framework, database independence and more. You can have a peek at the 1.0 code base anytime if you’re interested. Heck you might even be able to contribute towards it!

    Regardless, good luck in your decision-making process. Hard to argue with someone doing a big part of the work for you!
      Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
      Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
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      Ooops, seems like Ryan beat me to the clock when I was writing this loooonnnng messsage... Editing inconsistent part out right now !

      Hi Tom, it’s only normal to ask where we stand as far as MODx development is concerned, given the scope of your project I would say even the current build is really up to the task (though you’d have to give more details to really check that out thouroughy).

      Now, about the 0.9.5 release, it was originally set to be released at a much earlier date it’s true. For various reasons, we chose not to go forward with the intial plan, as we went along we realize it would be better to delay it for the time being, so that everything we had in mind would fit perfectly (we set high goals for MODx, and that’s also why I joined, most systems are so "mainstream" thinking kind of tool...). If anything, we might have been too transparent about our plans, too early. The thing is, MODx development, even with the delay, is pretty fast if you look at the changelogs there are much added to each development cycle.

      This will be even more true of the upcoming release (now we can use the word with certainty, since we are ironing the 0.9.5 beta for a release) : I’ll let dev team members give a time frame and go into more detail about what is new but I can tell you there are major changes there that will push MODx flexibility even further smiley

      On a side note, let me say that version numbering is something that you can’t compare from one project to another. I rember back at my Textpattern days where the 1.0 was expected, it was dubbed 4.0 after a series of 1.16gamma, 1.17gamma... etc. Those gamma were as stable as any final release in most opensource communities.

      Anyway, my point is, 0.9.2 could have been a 1.0 if you consider :
      - that it’s stable (almost never had to do any support for my 5 clients powered by MODx)
      - that it has a rich feature set : not only standard features but also quite advanced stuff (not seen elsewhere, at that)
      - that the community is strong and vital, with a growing user base

      Really, 0.9.5 will be a major step up on top of that, turning MODx into what I believe to be one of the very top solutions around.

      Anyway, CMS Made Simple is in beta for its 1.0 and they truly made some nice improvements, and they have an increasing number of extensions too. I know, since I sometimes use CMSMS for smaller projects. This being said, MODx is more than a CMS, it’s a content management framework. You can build custom applications with it, and you can build them faster and easier than with other systems.

      You can do things with MODx you simply can’t (or at least not without serious additionnal development or heavy tweaking) do with CMSMS. Consider data structure : there is no equivalent for MODx template variable in CMSMS.

      Most systems have a rigid way to structure content. Usually, content has a limited structure: Title, Summary, Body. Extensions (plugins, modules or the likes) sometimes offer to manage different types of content (images, products, job offers…): but again, they force you to use a predefined content structure which does not necessarily fit your particular needs. When they do offer a way to create custom content fields, they are either limited in number or in types of fields.

      With MODx you don’t suffer from those limitations :


      • You can create any type of custom content fields: text, rich text, number, date, images, checkbox, dropdown, email, url… with no limitations whatsoever. The best part: you can do so directly from the backend, without ever having to alter the database structure manually.
      • Each custom field is linked to a given template: that’s why the custom fields are called Template Variables in MODx. It allows you to define which templates can use the custom variables, and possibly define several content structure if needed.
      • You can use, style and place those content field easily: a simple tag, [*my_template_variable*], and you can display the content wherever you like, the way you want it displayed. Better yet, if you need to make it available for frontend editing, just add a # before the variable name [*#my_template_variable*].

      With this capabilities, I have built a company directory, a catalog for a travel agency, and I am finishing a big project with lots of custom content (more than 80 custom fields, 400 pages, some privates some public, lots of custome querries...etc). It’s really a great tool grin

      Those are part of the reasons I use MODx when my clients need customization. I have gone the "pre-packaged" way (e.g use a ready-to-go module or extension of some kind) before . I ended up loosing a lot of time tweaking those modules to get them to do what my client needed, and on top of that, looking like my client want it. All in all, while it might seem counter-intuitive, it’s easier to build something with MODx than install a module in say, Joomla. Templating is so much more flexible.

      Now, there are case when customization is not an issue : when you deal with "standard" content, modules are great because they provide a quick and efficient solution. More often than not though, you’ll have to do at least a bit of customization to have those modules styled as you want them to be. Plus, if you need you website to evolve and add custom features in the future, it’s better not to have to switch to a new system... That’s why I now use MODx for almost every project, except maybe the smallest ones.

      To end this particularly long message, I have looked for the Hospitality Reservation Module in CMSMS Forge, but didn’t find it... how close is it to a release ?
      I would advise testing it before making a choice. That would also mean you already know what data structure you need and that this particular module can fit the bill...






        .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.


        MODx est l&#39;outil id
        • 27226
        • 186 Posts
        Bravo David!
        Very concise and detailled explanation why MODx is better!
        (add that to your marketing material!) wink
        Just want to add a point to the delays: It’s true that the dev-team sometimes seems to devalue the current version of MODx by announcing new versions with features that everybody likes to have (if everybody needs them, is quite a different issue), and - even worse - they do so twice: with 0.95 and 1.0/Tattoo.
        In a marketing view it would be better, to have a stronger emphasis on all the things that have already been accomplished with MODx. The forums here are very development-focused and as such they are not an ideal platform for marketing.
        Some success-stories on modxcms.com would be great!

        regards!
          • 6726
          • 7,075 Posts
          Quote from: silent at Aug 18, 2006, 10:02 AM
          Bravo David! Very concise and detailled explanation why MODx is better! (add that to your marketing material!) wink

          Actually part of it was from my marketing material tongue
          I wouldn’t know about the "concise" part of the compliment wink

          Quote from: silent
          Just want to add a point to the delays: It’s true that the dev-team sometimes seems to devalue the current version of MODx by announcing new versions with features that anyone likes to have (if anyone needs them, is quite another issue), and - even worse - they do so twice: with 0.95 and 1.0/Tattoo. In a marketing view it would be better, to have a stronger emphasis on all the things that have already been accomplished with MODx. The forums here are very development-focused and as such they are not an ideal platform for marketing.Some success-stories on modxcms.com would be great! regards!

          About delays : Already said what I had to about 0.9.5 but when did you see any estimate about 1.0 release ??

          To close the matter, let’s just say this : you won’t find quicker development pace elsewhere, nor will you find this kind of cutting-edge piece of code elsewhere, period. I think the dev team has a great vision of what web apps should be (at least, that’s one I very much agree with !), and it’s sure cutting edge stuff that we have here, for FREE !!! Every day that goes by, I am thinking how lucky I am to benefit from those great ideas and concepts into a great tool built by a passionnate and talented group of people. But maybe that’s just me tongue

          I can see your point, but I don’t think we devalue the current version of MODx. Let’s just say the idea behind MODx might be hindered by the Eto legacy (not that Eto was or is bad software, don’t be mistaken...). I think we are oriented toward the future, and never satisfied by what is not satisfying... there is this continous driving force that you can feel there, "striving to achieve the vision". That’s why 1.0 is a separate branch, and a total rewrite : the ideas are the same, but free of "old code" that was created with other goals in mind, partly by other people. In a way, I see 0.9.5 as almost the farthest thing that could be done with the Eto legacy.

          1.0 will bring lots of new possiblities and features, and we are all very excited by this !

          Last but not least : success stories are a great idea grin





            .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.


            MODx est l&#39;outil id
            • 27226
            • 186 Posts
            "devalue" was not the right word to choose here, and the "seems" didn’t help much either.
            What I exactly meant was:
            The announcements of "cooler" future versions might keep potential users from using the current version.
            That’s all! I simply adore the work, the ideas and the attitudes of the dev-team! Don’t get me wrong here, otherwise I’d be very sad! wink
              • 30269
              • 119 Posts
              Thank you guys for your extensive answers. Reading it all, I feel the passion of the people behind the project. And passion and commitment is what matters most for feeling secure about our choice for Modx smiley

              Some feedback on your comments:

              Ryan, a.o.: Your Microsoft answer is maybe a great example of a company who gets away with terrible release history just because of their great marketing. Smaller organisations might be good of with a different approach. For example, a predictable schedule of a new release every 6 months. But then cleverly leave it open how big or small the release is. A major core structure or maybe just a new install with some updated modules? Version news always looks good on the home page and generates third party publicity: journalists like ’sound-bites’ like that.

              So mixing small and big releases help to put not too much time-pressure. I believe that the greatest creativity and inventions come when you have time to think and talk. I believe that’s why Modx is where many commercial products are not: taking a step back and then come up with something refreshingly new.

              David, a.o.: Maybe you’re right about being too transparent about the goals for Modx, but I think you did great. Being open means that people start thinking about it, contribute if not in coding then in user wishes. One of the reasons why OpenSource is getting so strong. Having said that, and being responsible for a small, 20 person production company, it’s good to be carefull with timing estimates like

              Quote from: OpenGeek at May 09, 2006, 09:54 AM

              (...) That said, I do not have a specific timeframe for release of 1.0, but I hope to have it into a usable form in the next 60 days.

              ...and that’s because I agree that Modx offers all we need to...except for the internationalisation. Still, when there is a challenge there is a solution: For now we decide to develop with Modx sequentially: first all English then other languages. And then, hopefully when Modx has it’s new functionality, the other languages. If not, just create sister pages.

              About the comparison with CMSMS. Thanks for your clear explanation. I indeed found TV’s missing. And then looking at the crisp second part of your mail: maybe a comparison section Modx versus others in the Forum/Wiki/.. would be great. It does help to get a grip. And one needs a grip before feeling confident to contribute.

              As far as the modules go. Indeed we know that current solutions do not fit our need. Still, starting from some done work and working further with it is the best way to go. After all our full-time profession is not coding and our resources are not limitless.

              I only glanced at the Reservation module on CMSMS ( http://dev.cmsmadesimple.org/projects/reservation and http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=18e63151ac30148e6b31d52e17c37e51&topic=5429.0). David, valueing your expertise: it would be great if you have an opinion on this module in the Modx environment. Would it make sense to try and port it?

              Silent: I am counting on that when people know 1) new versions, small or big, arrive in predictable frequence and 2)upgrades are easy to do, then they will know how to synchronize their own project schedule with the development’s and be happy to join the wagon now.

              Like I am for sure !

              Tom
                • 25663 MODX Staff
                • 12,272 Posts
                Thanks for the feedback Tom. Our 11th(!) release will happen within 30 days — that is a pretty solid deadline — and we’re not quite 2 years old yet, either. I’d like to move to quarterly releases honestly as this pace has been brutal. Your semi-annual idea is even more attractive!
                  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
                  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
                  • 6726
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                  Quote from: Tom at Aug 18, 2006, 12:20 PM
                  About the comparison with CMSMS. Thanks for your clear explanation. I indeed found TV’s missing. And then looking at the crisp second part of your mail: maybe a comparison section Modx versus others in the Forum/Wiki/.. would be great. It does help to get a grip. And one needs a grip before feeling confident to contribute.

                  You’re right, and I have some comparison handy in the french forums, mainly because I have a lot of questions about : how does MODx compare with Joomla ? how does MODx compare to SPIP ? How does MODx compare to Textpattern and so on... when I do know the system, I can answer more specifically. I never had a question about CMSMS, less known in France I guess.

                  I’ll try to have all those scattered info grouped and translated soon. One thing I have started doing on french boards is take a "case study" and show how to do such or such things with SPIP and then with MODx. Compare the code, the logic and show how we provide better flexiblity, code readability etc... but it’s quite time consuming, I’d need help before I could do this for multiple systems !

                  Quote from: Tom
                  As far as the modules go. Indeed we know that current solutions do not fit our need. Still, starting from some done work and working further with it is the best way to go. After all our full-time profession is not coding and our resources are not limitless.

                  I only glanced at the Reservation module on CMSMS ( http://dev.cmsmadesimple.org/projects/reservation and http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=18e63151ac30148e6b31d52e17c37e51&topic=5429.0). David, valueing your expertise: it would be great if you have an opinion on this module in the Modx environment. Would it make sense to try and port it?

                  Thanks for the links, at least I know where this module is !

                  Unfortunately, while I have a good grasp of the logic, I am not really a coder (just a humble designer) so I wouldn’t know about portability.
                  I guess one of the coders around here could give it a look and tell you more about it...
                    .: COO - Commerce Guys - Community Driven Innovation :.


                    MODx est l&#39;outil id
                    • 27226
                    • 186 Posts
                    I’ll try to have all those scattered info grouped and translated soon.
                    If it’s for french to english - I’d be happy to help!