A "simpler" approach for webdesigners

Quote from: smashingred at Jan 10, 2011, 10:49 AM

Some great feedback and ideas here folks. Documenting and documentation are always a challenge as the people who develop are rarely able to gain the perspective needed to write beginner instruction on what they’ve developed. MODx has some very good documentation and does very well at it but certainly is not perfect and we’re always looking for volunteers or people to request improvements to particular documentation.

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We are looking at some of the issues Erebus74 discussed about packages and we need to make sure we find a balance between making things easy and keeping installations clean. This may take the form of add-on bundles or possibly distributions.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Packages that allow a user to select "a la carte" style would be exciting. I think the most elegant solution would not to have different distributions or add on bundles - that would only confuse a novice user further (do I want a blog, or an image-based portfolio? What if I want both?). I think rather that MODx would benefit from something like the jQuery UI download section, where you have to download the Core at the very least, where some add-ins are dependent on others, and others you are able to include/exclude depending on your needs.

Sure, this type of system would be more complex to set up, but I think in the long run, it’s smarter for users that are using MODx for the first time and just want a quick and easy install.

When I proposed this the first time, all I received back was "Have a look at Packman". Sure, that’s great, if you are familiar with all the different parts of MODx and are willing to take the time to create your own, customized packages. But what about the user that is trying MODx out for the very first time? They certainly won’t know all of the different components that can go into creating a full blown site, let alone how to create their own package for future reference. I feel like this is a case of the same things said above - the MODx devs are just that - they live and breathe the core code so much that doing the more rudimentary tasks that new/inexperienced users encounter just doesn’t seem like a problem and is quickly written off.

No, it’s more that people want lots of things but we don’t have time to do them all, so we propose interim solutions (PackMan) for them in the meantime until the full solution (distributions) can be done.

We’ve said for a while that Distributions are on the Roadmap; we just have quite a bit of other things to do first before we can get there. And we need more core contributors to get there as well.

"Essentials for Blogging" http://modxcms.com/extras/package/793


Put this out there yesterday, and is a package with four other packages in it, aimed at providing a one click install of most addons you’ll need for, in this case, blogging.

It can be retrieved through Package Manager -> Site Packages.

If this gets some positive feedback (I’m not sure packages like these have been used yet before), it’s a breeze to put out other packages in the same fashion.

Nice idea for a package!

Quote from: Mark at Jan 12, 2011, 05:44 AM

"Essentials for Blogging" http://modxcms.com/extras/package/793


Put this out there yesterday, and is a package with four other packages in it, aimed at providing a one click install of most addons you’ll need for, in this case, blogging.

It can be retrieved through Package Manager -> Site Packages.

If this gets some positive feedback (I’m not sure packages like these have been used yet before), it’s a breeze to put out other packages in the same fashion.

Nice.

Did you do that with PackMan, or write a build script for it?

@shaun: Is it possible to package multiple existing transport packages into one package with a build script, use a validator with user input to determine which ones will be installed, then have them install one by one if they’ve been selected?

Did that with Packman. With the "Subpackages" tab.

I’ve not looked at the code of what it generates, but according to the info on that tab it checks for newer versions of the package installed, and if that’s there, it wont install it.


May not be perfect (you’re also not getting the setup options for subpackages), but it can serve as a quick install solution.

There are so many good points here and I’ll give my 2 cents on a few of them.

@Erebus74 I too am just a designer. I don’t know a line of php or javascript and it’s not for lack of trying. My brain just doesn’t work that way. But I have been able to build 2 or 3 pretty nice sites in MODx with out too much trouble.

my own personal site http://elixirbranding.com

and a client site http://tilm.org

The documentation is getting better all the time and is often quite helpful. Like was said before every CMS has a learning curve and from my experience with the likes of Drupal, Joomla, and TextPattern, MODx is a dream. Wordpress is much easier as there are plugins for anything you could want but with that ease and pre-packaged goodness you loose a lot of freedom and power. This is why MODx is the choice for me. I can start with a couple static html and css files and build something that is far beyond my programing knowledge.

I learned tons about getResources by going through the Revo Blog how to. I think more full real world examples of common needs would be a welcome addition to the documentation. Even if they are written by programers that know the system really well, and then proof read by someone with a different perspective to ensure it makes sense to us noobs.

I’d be willing to read things to see if they make sense. I don’t feel qualified to write though I have been thinking about posting to my own blog about some of the things I’ve figured out. Others may want to know. Just yesterday I found a modified version of the getResourcesTag snippet here on the forums that allows for displaying related content based on a tag. I was working on that for a week and then I just stumbled across it.

Using Package Management is not difficult, if you know what you’re looking for. This can easily be rectified with a series of super simple intro to modx posts in the Documentation. Not posts about the philosophy behind why modx or how it’s been coded in the core, but with some thought to End Users of all types. I understand it’s still in development but it always will be and at some point the documentation will need to be focused towards the lowest common denominator if MODx is to grow in market share. One of the things I love about MODx is the freedom in how you can approach building the site. I don’t want the documentation to set forth 1 way and only 1 way to do things, but more of a here are the tools you’ll need to do this however you want. This is direction it currently portrays but is missing some of the underlying connectivity tissue that helps us noobs fully understand what we need to do.

For what that’s worth.