CMS or Static

Dear Mod-ers, I hope this is a right place to ask this question.

I am working on a small site (about 25 pages), and I didn’t suggest client use a CMS (modx my first and only choice so far) because the budget is tight, I gave a special rate treating the site as re-design instead of new site (new design, new layout but part of the content, markup and CSS are reusable), and that initial plan was that the site was about just about 10 pages.

As client wanted to add more pages and extra dynamic features such as dropdown menu (this can still be done with my PVII PMM in static page), gallery, and server-side form validation, I am torn to want to move the site to Modx as it will make my job a lot easier having a template, chunks and TVs in placed. I estimate I probably will be spending about the same time if the site is built in Modx and the site in Static (with PHP include).

My problem is that, because the agreement has been signed, and I have received the deposit, I don’t want to suggest client to move the site to a CMS for the following reasons even I am willing to give them a CMS site with the agreed price:

1) it’s a low maintenance site;

2) my biggest concern: CMS site needs maintenance (version updates, security patches etc). Since this one didn’t entered into the agreement, I will have to do this for free or completely ignore the (security) update, which I think is a bad idea);

3) I also concern that if I build the site in Modx, one day I suddenly disappear or hit by car in my lucky day, they will get panic because static site is a lot easier for any web designer to take over, and perhaps cheaper too -- though it’s a low maintenance site, client did express strong wishes for me to do update should it be needed;

4) This is the least of the concern but valid. I also give a quote for a CMS site (about 40+ pages) for the same client (well not exactly, but this client has two businesses and two different people are handling the website project) which costs a lot more - suffice to say, I was given them impression that CMS site costs more, and they thought the same).

So now if I were to move this 25+ sites to Modx and stick with the agreed price, it may backfire due to the quote I have for another site - the other person in charge may come back to me to try to negotiate.

I also curious how you guys deal with a situation when client(s) have no preferences and concern how and what you use to build the site. Last year I had two client with small sites and they didn’t care what I use but that what I thought is best for them, , so I built the sites in Modx, but very soon I realized it was a mistake because it actually is easier for maintenance - I didn’t anticipate the version updates and new patches (their sites are still in v 0.9.5), let alone that one day I may not available to them, and they ran into problem or suddenly wanting to update the site. I saw this happening to people who had their sites built in Flash too, they came to me to ask for minor changes, but when I told them it’s impossible for me to add anything to their flash site, they get devastated that it will cost them so much to add a single line of text. I guess I I can give clients info of Modx forum and that they can come here to hire someone if needed

It seems you mainly want to use MODx because it makes development easier. But you dont want the headaches of maintaining a CMS compared to a flat site, right?

I would setup the site in MODx. Then get a site ripper to save the final output as static. Upload the static site, keep the SQL in case he needs an upgrade.

MODx can export a site as flat html files. Tools -> Export static HTML

Quote from: ProWebscape at Feb 02, 2008, 04:06 PM

It seems you mainly want to use MODx because it makes development easier. But you don’t want the headaches of maintaining a CMS compared to a flat site, right?

Yes, Modx is ideal for faster site development and to my advantage (be able to learn more about Modx) and time, therefor I really love to grab every opportunity to use Modx. About the maintenance, it isn’t so much concern if it’s being updated by me, and I probably will update that two small sites for free when v 0.9.7 is out as it’s a bit difficult to convince my small budget clients to upgrade if I charge them my hourly rate, or I may export them to static HTML as you guys suggested (Great idea, thank you!). My concern is that, my clients (many of them are small businesses) are not website savvy, thought they are convinced that having website is a good investment for their businesses, but the idea of ’website involves maintenance cost (CMS upgrade)’ is not something appealing to them - same as software upgrade to us. Part of it was because I was new to CMS, and didn’t aware of this (so it’s my fault too).

But overall I have this larger concern, when I as a web designer is free to make any choice for my client’s website (who don’t need a CMS), that means they trusted my service and that I will do the best to their interest, then one day I disappear, they are in panic that not every web designer there call can do a simple update for them because it’s built in Modx and thus need a Modx expert, despite the fact that they can find plenty here, I feel that it does create anxiety to them and may cost them more for a simple update. So I am really curious how you guys deal with this when you have a client with a very small site that needs no CMS and is completely trusting you to do whatever you think is best for him/her.

Quote from: sottwell at Feb 02, 2008, 04:07 PM

MODx can export a site as flat html files. Tools -> Export static HTML

Curious, do you know if Wayfinder is used for dropdown menu and maxigallery for gallery, how does the static html output, will the dropdown and gallery still work?

The two small sites I built in v 9.0.5, used none of them so I can easily export to static HTML, but I have concern for this new site I was working.

The dropdown menu will still work, since this just generates the page and writes it to a file just as it does when caching. The dropdown function is not done by MODx, that’s all in the css or javascript. Maxigallery I’m not so sure about, but it should work, although you won’t be able to add new images, the page will be exactly as created at that time (well, that sort of is the definition of static, isn’t it?). Of course any interactive features, contact forms and logins and such, won’t work.

Quote from: chinesedream at Feb 02, 2008, 06:53 PM

...one day I disappear, they are in panic that not every web designer there call can do a simple update for them because it’s built in Modx and thus need a Modx expert, despite the fact that they can find plenty here, I feel that it does create anxiety to them and may cost them more for a simple update. So I am really curious how you guys deal with this when you have a client with a very small site that needs no CMS and is completely trusting you to do whatever you think is best for him/her.

Give them the username and password. MODx is fairly easy to understand and the best thing that you could do is recommend any number of dev/designers here at the forums. I build 4-6 page sites in MODx because it is easier than building them staticly. Because I can use eForm and Wayfinder and Ditto rather than me doing a combination of PHP/HTML. I feel that soon there will be tonnes of devs who get into MODx and will be able to easily work in it no less than WordPress or Drupal or Joomla.

Cheers,

Jay

If you do the site in MODx, make the client a manager user, and write out the steps for adding pages, managing photos, and editing existing pages, they should be in fairly good shape even without you.

I’ve had very naive users do these tasks with almost no trouble at all.

In a bind, they could certainly come here. I don’t think they’d have any trouble finding help on the forums.

Bob

Typically, I will include training to add/edit documents along with documentation in the price of the job. I don’t think you should ever offer a site to a client and leave them in trouble if I get hit by a bus. Static sites don’t make it perfect either. I have had clients who took a perfectly designed site and wrecked it with MS Word and Frontpage. The site even used a few PHP includes to add content. I will give them credit for adding/editing content though.

Cheers,

Jay

Thank you all for the good advice! I have always prepared a seal envelope for each client that contains all their website info and where to seek for help if I vanish from thin air

I will add the Modx forum for potential developers. Modx isn’t as wide-spread as WP and other CMS, so that was and still is one of the concern I have because quite many of my clients only want to deal with web desinger whom can be meet in person, also because one time I gave a quote to a potential client who wanted to use WP for his site, when I highly recommended he goes with Modx, he raised concern that if one day I no l longer available, he will have trouble locating other web designer locally and that he didn’t heard of Modx before, so he was also afraid it may cost him more than finding someone with WP knowledge.

A private list-serve I subscribed, some people never heard of Modx, despite that I take every opportunity to mention it whenever people ask for CMS recommendation, but people tend to ignore my recommendation.