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    • 22756
    • 9 Posts
    Hi everybody,

    I’ve been looking for a solution to my problem without succes.

    the thing is if you open my website in IE7 it all goes well.
    If I open te same site in FireFox 2.0.0.4 it sort of shrinks the bottom.
    It’s difficult to explain so you might wanna take a look at it yourself

    here is the link to my site:

    http://www.fc-b.be/modx

    Thanks in advance for any help!
      • 22756
      • 9 Posts
      Thanks for taking the time to look at it.

      I just had a look at a IE6, yes apparantly it handles the website in the same way.
      So IE7 does something different then IE6 and FF (which of course is no suprise)

      Anyone has an idea?

      Cheers!
        • 27708 MODX Staff
        • 2,502 Posts
        The thing is that designing in IE and trying to make things work in FF or other browsers is tricky at best. You should design in FF or Opera and then fix it for IE5, IE6 and IE7 with conditional comments and not hacks. The problem is that you get used to making things work with an browser that still has its own quirks and while Firefox is not perfect, more browsers have similar models for CSS implementation. What you are running into is how FF and IE treat absolutely positioned elements. If you remove the position:absolute from the #footer and check it in FF it looks more correct.

        Again, I would suggest using FF or Opera to design and then make adjustments for IE. This allows for the fewest hacks and least stress when attempting cross-browser similarity (they will likely never look pixel perfect unless you go back to tables with spacer gifs and the like).

        Something else I have begun doing that helps control some of the unknowns by resetting html browser properties. I use a set of CSS rules that render most property values to 0, none or inherit where the browser might otherwise render its own margin or sizing. This way when you start your CSS editing all the browsers should be using the same base values. The one I am using is Eric Meyer’s CSS Reset Rloaded.

        Here is his code:
        html, body, div, span, applet, object, iframe,
        h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, blockquote, pre,
        a, abbr, acronym, address, big, cite, code,
        del, dfn, em, font, img, ins, kbd, q, s, samp,
        small, strike, strong, sub, sup, tt, var,
        dl, dt, dd, ol, ul, li,
        fieldset, form, label, legend,
        table, caption, tbody, tfoot, thead, tr, th, td {
        	margin: 0;
        	padding: 0;
        	border: 0;
        	outline: 0;
        	font-weight: inherit;
        	font-style: inherit;
        	font-size: 100%;
        	font-family: inherit;
        	vertical-align: baseline;
        }
        /* remember to define focus styles! */
        :focus {
        	outline: 0;
        }
        body {
        	line-height: 1;
        	color: black;
        	background: white;
        }
        ol, ul {
        	list-style: none;
        }
        /* tables still need 'cellspacing="0"' in the markup */
        table {
        	border-collapse: separate;
        	border-spacing: 0;
        }
        caption, th, td {
        	text-align: left;
        	font-weight: normal;
        }
        blockquote:before, blockquote:after,
        q:before, q:after {
        	content: "";
        }
        blockquote, q {
        	quotes: "" "";
        }



        @ganeshXL

        <!-- Will only be read by IE versions less then IE 7-->
        <!--[if lt IE 7]>
           <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="ie7.css" /> 
        <![endif]--> 


        Should be:
        <!-- Will only be read by IE versions less than or equal to IE 7-->
        <!--[if lte IE 7]>
           <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="ie7.css" /> 
        <![endif]--> 


        OR for IE7 only
        <!-- Will only be read by IE 7-->
        <!--[if IE 7]>
           <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="ie7.css" /> 
        <![endif]--> 



        I also always need to have a conditional comment/separate stylesheet for IE6 and occasionally IE5.

        This practice also eliminates hacks as it is completely valid HTML and CSS. No tricks,

          Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub
          • 22756
          • 9 Posts
          ok guys, this good stuff to work on.
          however, I might have put you guys on a sidewalk. Ya’ll seem to be concentrating on IE7.
          IE7 displays the website the way I want it. only IE6 and FF seem to handle it in the "wrong" way.
          So I need to come up with a "fix" for IE6 and FF.
          I’m not much of a web coder and really appreciate all your help so far.
          This is the first CMS i’m really wanting to use, and believe me, i’ve tried a few!

          Thanks again for the help so far
            • 27708 MODX Staff
            • 2,502 Posts
            Patje,

            You got lucky that your layout is working in IE7. The fact of the matter is that if you are trying to design something and you don’t know what it is that made it work you can’t make it work in other browsers. So fixing it for IE6 and FF is a very long exercise trying to figure out which broken part of IE7’s CSS implementation you need to change in order to make it work.

            Your "right" design in IE7 is based on some of the oddball implementation of the CSS model based on the way that Microsofts IE7 Dev Team interpreted the CSS and HTML standards. Unfortunately there are elements and properties that only function that way in IE7 so it may be impossible to make your IE7 page look right in FF or IE6 or Opera or Safari.

            One of your big hurdles for the design is how IE absolute positioning works compared to other browsers. Another problem is in the way elements with heights, margins, min-heights and line-heights all work together.

            If you were to redo the layout in a separate Stylesheet for Firefox and then see how it looked in IE7 you could then go to Postion Is Everything and determine why IE’s are not behaving as needed. This is far less work that you think. I would just copy and tweak your CSS file and once you get it looking right in FF, then figure out whay needs to be fixed to make it work in IE7. It should likely be only a few lines of CSS to fix it and have it working well in all browsers.

            To be honest, I think that this type of layout seems a little complex for a person who is just getting into HTML/CSS. Dreamweaver is not going to be able to deliver a cross browser compatible layout without some clever hand coding.


            I wish you all the best,

            Jay


            PS: This template design is in no way related to MODx and how any CMS works.
              Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub
              • 22756
              • 9 Posts
              Alright, I seem to understand what you are trying to tell me.
              I have been using the template in IE7 for a while and until recently I discovered the "error" in ff.
              Thanks to you I have good look on where to search, If I find a solution I’ll be sure to post it in here.

              btw, I know the template has nothing to do with the way this CMS works, but I’m very pleased with the /manager administration page.
              Altough I don’t understand many features like Ditto and such, I find creating new pages and editing them a lot easier than any other CMS i’ve used.
              I have been using e107 for a while as well, but still find modx a lot better.

              Thanks for the support!
              Patje
                • 25663 MODX Staff
                • 12,272 Posts
                Rule of thumb I find to be universally true as stated here:

                Design for Firefox/Safari first then fix in IE = shortest route possible.

                Design for IE first then try to beat the others into submission = 4-10x more time, way more messy css and non-semantic markup added to your files (and usually starting over for Firefox/Safari then fixing to work right in IE).
                  Ryan Thrash, MODX Co-Founder
                  Follow me on Twitter at @rthrash or catch my occasional unofficial thoughts at thrash.me
                  • 22756
                  • 9 Posts
                  well, found a solution that works for me.
                  It’s not exactly the same but at least it’s looking better now smiley

                  I changed the layout.css:

                  old:
                  /*for mozilla as IE treats height as min-height anyway*/
                  
                  #inner{
                  	width:100%;
                  	padding-top:143px;/*needed to make room for header*/
                  

                  new
                  /*for mozilla as IE treats height as min-height anyway*/
                  
                  #inner{
                  	width:100%;
                  	padding-top:143px;/*needed to make room for header*/
                  	height: 450px;
                  


                  probably easy for you guys but toughed i’d share it anyway.

                  EDIT: well, after looking at the page in 1024x786 It got messy, so I changed it back...
                    • 27376
                    • 576 Posts
                    Quote from: rthrash at Jul 06, 2007, 09:10 AM

                    Rule of thumb I find to be universally true as stated here:

                    Design for Firefox/Safari first then fix in IE = shortest route possible.

                    Design for IE first then try to beat the others into submission = 4-10x more time, way more messy css and non-semantic markup added to your files (and usually starting over for Firefox/Safari then fixing to work right in IE).
                    Well put! I always design it the way I want in FF, and then create an [tt]iehax.css[/tt] file and hack away at the CSS until it looks the same wink With the infamous IE7 though I need to create an [tt]ie7hax.css[/tt] file to fix it undecided

                    M$ should get over itself and build a standards compliant browser. </rant>
                      • 27708 MODX Staff
                      • 2,502 Posts
                      Quote from: sirlancelot at Jul 11, 2007, 03:03 PM

                      M$ should get over itself and build a standards compliant browser. </rant>
                      While I agree that M$ is responsible for the oversights in IE7 it doesn’t help that the W3C can’t write a recommendation clear enough for browser teams to figure out. Most of the odd behaviors follow the specs but it is the interpretation that is the problem. W3C needs to write a spec that has only one interpretation and one implementation result not shoulds, oughts, mays and etc. These should be replaced by must and may only or do not or must not.
                        Author of zero books. Formerly of many strange things. Pairs well with meats. Conversations are magical experiences. He's dangerous around code but a markup magician. Blog ✦ Twitter ✦ LinkedIn ✦ GitHub