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So’m I, but eventually we will need some kind of auto-installation feature; perhaps a module, so those of us who prefer to code our x86 ASM with EDLIN can ignore the wimpy thing

Quote from: davidm at Nov 08, 2005, 03:30 AM

it limits the "kubrick syndrome" [/b]with lots of look alike clones (see WordPress). This has not happened with textpattern... and also this has brought many coders and designers toward this app... Same could be true of MODx

Not speaking on behalf of the general team, but that’s what I’m hoping for, and am very glad to see some recognition of this.

I understand the need for simplicity for beginners and low-tech users, but at pre-release stage I don’t know if those users are a target anyway. You need technical-savy people and advanced users to have nice and clean bug reports, provide ideas to get to a Release Candidate... Of course, next stage would allow for this kind of automated theme installation, but right now I am rather pleased that it’s not there (please don’t shoot me !)

I wouldn’t call MODx a pre-release stage by any means. However, we’re definitely still in the refining stage and prefer to spend development resources optimizing the core and making the features more intuitive and powerful. After that comes the wizards and "newbie-focus". We just don’t have the resources to fully address all markets!

As said frequently elsewhere and here, sometimes less really is more!

Ryan, I did not mean MODx was unstable and not ready for production, it seems pretty solid as it is and once a few things are roughed out, I see a great future for this CMS

I was just refering to the version number 0.9.0 (dubbed Tech Preview 3.2, am I wrong ? ... I am new here) which implies a 1.0 "release" of a final product.

I very much like the approach of MODx (I’ve read opensourcecms interview), lightening the core, being modular and flexible... To me, it’s the way of the future, as we say in french "tu prêche un convaincu", you preach to a believer !

As I said before, I have great hopes for MODx and I am glad to embark upon this journey

The tech preview releases were the non-production demos. And software is never "finished" so our version number doesn’t really mean anything more than we haven’t lost the current manager, but functionally it’s a release product.

Yeah I know software is never finished, yet there are some "conventions", you can usually find patterns in versionning numbers between apps (that said, for textpattern Dean chose to dub the 1.0 version a 4.0 )

Anyway, when I see how quickly and efficiently bugs are being solved, I have no second toughts offering MODx to my clients. It’s already on my shortlist of web applications, along with Textpattern, DotClear, Vtiger, UNB and AroundMe.

I did not come to MODx in order to being part of some sort of CMS geeks elite. What I liked about the MODx was its apparent ease of use, both for the admin AND for the users. If this tool is only going towards the "uber CMS experts", the true spirit of its origin will be lost.
I am sorry guys, but I truly think that you have to move towards two directions at the same time 

The average CMS Joe.

French Frog, I didn’t mean to suggest MODx should address some kind of "elite" and refuse to implement a theme auto-installer. I only underlined that - at this stage - it might not be a priority to implement such a feature and MODx needs a strong advanced users-coders-designers base to evolve into a full fledged advanced yet easy-to-use-and-customize application.

Why ?

• Because you need enough people willing and able to answer support questions.
• Because you need enough users not only submitting bug reports (anyone can and should do that), but help solving them
• Because you need good designers to build nice templates for MODx, and enough of those guys to build many templates so that MODx websites do not look alike when the users base widen to people who won’t customize its look
• Because you need coders to build plugins, modules and code snippets to help build a modular and flexible publishing tool and you need advanced users to help test them, debug them and provide ideas.

Like you, I am strongly in favor of a user friendly CMS : both for publishing and administration. I didn’t mean to imply that "the average CMS joe" shouldn’t be taken into consideration (and as you said, were it not the case you wouldn’t have appreciated its ease of use). I was just saying that though things look good on all 4 points I’ve made above, it might not be enough yet for MODx to offer a feature that will undoubtedly widen its base of users in such a way that it might take all ressources to provide support and not enough to adress those 3 other points. In the end, no one will benefit from it.

It’s kind of a community life cycle, different cycles have different priorities. Right now if you want to keep attract coders, designers and advanced users which in my opinion is key to further improve MODx, you have to handle the community’s growth.

That was the theory, in fact things are no so "clear cut" : of course geeks and averages joes coexist here, and each bring something to the table. You are here, which means you weren’t detered by the absence of a theme auto-installer, which means you made the effort to understand how it works. Some people don’t, and those people need a "work out of the box" product that MODx isn’t yet (it’s close, but to me, not there yet).

I hope I was clearer regarding my statement.
Everyone’s input is valuable, of course !

I am contributing to a project regarding usability of CMS and believe me, CMS averages joes and end users have a lot to bring to the table

Thank you David... I think you definitely summed up quite eloquently the "developer’s dilema" and early life stages of a new project. We’ve still got some optimization and tweaking to do, and we can’t ignore less experienced users, but you did correctly identify where we should (and are!) devoting our resources.

:)

Very interesting point of vue. I guess I was right in keeping my CMS options open

I remember when the fancy 4-in-1 printer, copier, scanner, fax machines first came out. The university hospital where I worked spent a fortune putting one of these in every department. Within a few weeks every single one of them had signs taped to them: "FAX ONLY", or "SCAN ONLY", or whatever; they simply didn’t work. Now, years later, they (mostly) work just fine. I would prefer to see MODx take a slower approach, and have each stage work correctly before adding the next. So, for now, if you reqire an automated plug-in template or module system, by all means, keep your CMS options open. (although I must admit, I find the copy/paste installation very simple and much more flexible as it is)