⚠️ Urgent! Active Attacks on MODX Revolution Sites Below Revolution 2.6.5
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  • I thought I'd provide a place to discuss people's thoughts on MODX3. This is it.
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    • Good one Bob!

      We had a meetup in Köln/Cologne (Germany) yesterday, where I presented the current alpha build and we got a lot of valuable feedback. There's one thing I did ask everyone there though and I'm doing the same here: if you have any feedback, please also share that in Github and keep it constructive, so please don't just share "I don't like this", but "I don't like this and would rather have it change to this-and-that, because some-reason.".
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      • Quote from: nomark at Jul 13, 2018, 09:46 AM
        Good one Bob!

        We had a meetup in Köln/Cologne (Germany) yesterday, where I presented the current alpha build and we got a lot of valuable feedback. There's one thing I did ask everyone there though and I'm doing the same here: if you have any feedback, please also share that in Github and keep it constructive, so please don't just share "I don't like this", but "I don't like this and would rather have it change to this-and-that, because some-reason.".

        Damn, there goes my pink butterflies suggestion :/
        • I'm really impressed by the underlying architecture changes in MODX3, though I haven't spent a lot of time looking at them. The introduction of Composer is a great new feature and the Manager code has improved a lot.

          I have to admit that I was a little miffed that after spending literally hundreds of hours developing UpgradeMODX, no one approached me about integrating it into the MODX3 core. We're still making WordPress look good by comparison in that area.

          I'm also concerned about the effect of dashboard-widget-styling changes on MODX CMP extras. At first glance, it looks like there's no way to create a CMP extra that will look good in both MODX3 and previous versions without detecting the version and doing a lot of extra work, but maybe I'm missing something.

          I was also disappointed to see ExtJS 3 hanging around (the current version is 6.6 -- but not free), though it appears to have a much smaller role in MODX3. Smarty is also still with us, though that may be a good thing and/or necessary for BC.

          My biggest disappointment with MODX3 is that the security permissions system appears to be unchanged.

          People continually struggle with it, and I suspect that many users leave MODX (or don't adopt it in the first place) because the security system is so difficult to work with. As far as I can see, there is still no way to let Manager users manage other users without giving them full access that allows them to manage *any* user.

          I made some suggestions about 5 years ago for improving the security system. Maybe my suggestions were unworkable, but I was at least hoping for some changes that would make it easier to understand.

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            MODX info for everyone: http://bobsguides.com/MODx.html
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          • donshakespeare Reply #5, 2 months ago
            I made some suggestions about 5 years ago for improving the security system. Maybe my suggestions were unworkable, but I was at least hoping for some changes that would make it easier to understand.

            Here is the link for keep sake, in case some people have forgotten.
            https://forums.modx.com/thread/82926/modx-3-security-system

            I have to admit that I was a little miffed that after spending literally hundreds of hours developing UpgradeMODX, no one approached me about integrating it into the MODX3 core. We're still making WordPress look good by comparison in that area.
            Very sad and disappointing. I had hoped the most important contributors would be working together on this great project, but it appears that 2018 has not improved the snail mail system for memo distribution.

            That plugin is a life safer. hands down!

            @BobRay are you on Slack?

            As detestable as livechat can easily become, it is undeniable that most of MODX community communication is going on there.
            And github of course.
              TinymceWrapper: Complete back/frontend content solution.
              Harden your MODX site by passwording your three main folders: core, manager, connectors and renaming your assets (thank me later!)
              5 ways to sniff / hack your own sites; even with renamed/hidden folders, burst them all up, to see how secure you are not.
            • @donshakespeare I may not qualify as an "important contributor," since I do very little work on the development of the MODX core.

              I am technically "on" Slack, but don't really use it. My impression was that it's a good place to get a quick answer, but not a good place to provide information where users can find it later. I suspect that new MODX users are unlikely to use it (assuming that they even know about it). I much prefer the Forums as an information repo. Imho, the general abandonment of the Forums by the core developers in favor of Slack was a bad strategic decision for MODX, though I can see why it happened. Between the Forums and keeping up with my extra packages, I don't really have time for Slack
                Get my Book: MODX:The Official Guide
                MODX info for everyone: http://bobsguides.com/MODx.html
                My MODX Extras
                Bob's Guides is now hosted at A2 MODX Hosting
              • I don't really mind ExtJS or Smarty, I'm just sorry we can't update them to the latest versions.
                If MODX gets rid of those or builds an entirely new manager with other tools, you may as well call it a brand new CMS cause everything is starting from scratch at that point.

                What can be done? I think it's obvious MODX can't survive forever on the existing manager, it just won't. It will slowly hemorrhage users and put off potential plugin makers. ExtJS needs to update or go away so plugin makers have a clear path what to do next.

                The way I see it there are only a few paths to take:
                1) MODX can fork into another product and Revo gets some long term support for another 4 or 5 years for bug fixes only.

                2) Someone has to build an incredibly sophisticated abstraction library to convert everything ExtJS into the new version so that these core libraries can be updated and made use of. Give plugin makers a couple years to convert their stuff to the new versions before this layer is removed entirely. Simultaneously they have to build another abstraction layer to translate the new ExtJS so we don't end up in the same situation again. Building two huge abstraction layers is no small task.

                3) Keep everything as-is and watch people slowly leave to faster moving products. Other CMSes are figuring out how to build easier APIs, more real time interaction and development environments (page builders, frontend editing, etc). All the RESTful APIs, headless features, CLI tools and other tooling, custom field management (bespoke content types, matrix fields, repeat fields, etc).


                Now, not to be a debbie downer, I think MODX3 is doing great. I like the move the Composer libraries and the UI improvements are welcome. A bump up in PHP version and all that. But it must be answered, what is the long term vision? How is ExtJS going to get updated? Will there be a new Manager? As of now, it's really difficult building custom data, CMPs, working with security model, and some other tasks. All these important things get handed to plugins which themselves are getting complex to use. We can't even get a self-updating tool in the core despite this being a common feature in the industry, or even a backup tool really. The app store is getting really out of date, don't know if older plugins are still safe or not, or maintained at all (which might be a good argument for starting over).

                I think the problem is that everybody wants MODX to make all these great leaps in features and updates, but we want it all NOW. We want a huge evolution in a short period of time, and there aren't the resources and manpower and cash to do it. So it's my fear the slow pace and stagnation will just hemorrhage users for more modern options. I never liked comparing MODX to Wordpress, I don't believe they are in the same category of tools, but I do often hear comparison to frameworks like Drupal, but even Drupal made some recent leaps on architecture. What is MODX's next big move to keep pace in the industry? Simply waiting on the open source community to develop these huge leaps is not going to work. These aren't bug fixes and patches, this is a huge core undertaking!

                Anyway, keep up the good work, and long live MODX!
                • Good points. I think there is a backup widget on the Dashboard in MODX3 (but I don't think there's a restore tool). I suspect that ExtJS will be phased out for the Manager in favor of pure JavaScript, though it will probably still be loaded to support legacy extras. If you look at the source of the Manager dashboard page, you'll see that all the ExtJS class names are gone. The only references I could see are one Ext.getCmp and a few Ext message boxes, and those may be gone in the official release.

                    Get my Book: MODX:The Official Guide
                    MODX info for everyone: http://bobsguides.com/MODx.html
                    My MODX Extras
                    Bob's Guides is now hosted at A2 MODX Hosting
                  • Really good points made here: https://github.com/modxcms/revolution/issues/13968
                    [ed. note: mrhaw last edited this post 2 months ago.]
                      @hawproductions | http://mrhaw.com/

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                    • donshakespeare Reply #10, 2 months ago
                      @mrhaw that github thread is really scary ... a major discussion about something that should not even exist - an overwhelming new resource layout.
                        TinymceWrapper: Complete back/frontend content solution.
                        Harden your MODX site by passwording your three main folders: core, manager, connectors and renaming your assets (thank me later!)
                        5 ways to sniff / hack your own sites; even with renamed/hidden folders, burst them all up, to see how secure you are not.