<![CDATA[ Without MySQL - My Forums]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/?thread=1230 <![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9354
Your comments about Revolution have me stoked to try it out. I’m heading off to download it now. smiley

Keep up the great work!]]>
kenw Mar 16, 2009, 01:50 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9354
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9353 Quote from: kenw at Mar 15, 2009, 11:58 PM

Nevertheless, I also believe you can build a scalable and highly performant CMS using the file system to store content. In fact, I architected and led the development of a successful "enterprise CMS" (targeted at small to medium sized financial institutions) using flat files for regular content and templates. It runs on a server farm supporting over 100 sites/server and millions of hits/day. We did use a database to store user info and some odds and ends where it seemed to make sense but 90% of the content was being pulled out of plain old files.

We decided to use the file system because we believed it would make it a whole lot easier to support versioning, grouped changes, and multi-stage deployment, features that aren’t part of MODx and which are probably not important to MODx’s core audience (but are important to a certain class of CMS user). In fact, these sorts of features are antithetical to MODx’s basic premise of simple content authoring and publishing. I’m still not sure you need to user a relational database to store snippets, chunks, etc. but that won’t stop me from continuing to use and like this great application.
Is this a PHP CMS? No denying that you can do that, but ultimately, you have to be able to cache that content (and the database hits) to serve truly scalable sites, unless you are talking about writing straight PHP. That doesn’t count, because CMS users do not want to edit plain PHP/HTML files to manage their content.

Never-the-less, MODx Revolution 2.0 will give you the option of storing your Resource source content (i.e. Documents) on the file-system. The release after that will do the same for Elements (i.e. Templates, Chunks, Snippets, TVs and Plugins) and introduce native versioning, regardless if your source content is stored in the database or the file-system. Ultimately your caching strategy is going to be your most important point; where your source content is stored is only important to the environment you are running the site in and your decision on where to store content should be based on those facts.

Our aim (or at least mine) with MODx is to force as few rules on the developer as possible when constructing a site. I prefer flexibility and allowing the utilization of tried and trusted software over making MODx do everything, and the same philosophy will be applied to this issue, so (for example) those who want to use Subversion to version their content can, while others can choose to use the native MODx versioning features (once that feature is released).]]>
opengeek Mar 16, 2009, 01:55 AM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9353
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9352
Nevertheless, I also believe you can build a scalable and highly performant CMS using the file system to store content. In fact, I architected and led the development of a successful "enterprise CMS" (targeted at small to medium sized financial institutions) using flat files for regular content and templates. It runs on a server farm supporting over 100 sites/server and millions of hits/day. We did use a database to store user info and some odds and ends where it seemed to make sense but 90% of the content was being pulled out of plain old files.

We decided to use the file system because we believed it would make it a whole lot easier to support versioning, grouped changes, and multi-stage deployment, features that aren’t part of MODx and which are probably not important to MODx’s core audience (but are important to a certain class of CMS user). In fact, these sorts of features are antithetical to MODx’s basic premise of simple content authoring and publishing. I’m still not sure you need to user a relational database to store snippets, chunks, etc. but that won’t stop me from continuing to use and like this great application.]]>
kenw Mar 15, 2009, 06:58 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql?page=2#dis-post-9352
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9351 Quote from: QnA at Mar 15, 2009, 05:12 AM

Damn straight I’m entitled to an opinion after all these decades.
As we are to ours here in this community, where you might do better to remember you are a guest. You did come here and post your opinion "out of the blue", so I have to wonder, like splittingred did, why you even bothered to if you were not looking for a SQL-powered CMS product in the first-place.

Quote from: QnA at Mar 15, 2009, 05:12 AM

For me it’s just a retro fad sponsored by MySQL, Inc. and over-hyped by crowd behavior. There are better ways to organize CMS content, I just want a system that lets me do things my way. MODx ain’t it. So thanks for the chitchat, that much is worth knowing.
Me thinks you drank too much of someone’s kool-aid along the way, but have fun rolling your own CMS or using one of the many flat-file CMS products that are already available for you to explore. Or you could go back to CODASYL and continue to dream of a future without relational and/or object databases.]]>
opengeek Mar 15, 2009, 11:30 AM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9351
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9350 http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp cool]]> mrhaw Mar 15, 2009, 01:06 AM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9350 <![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9349
The SQL-CMS sites use wikis for docs, not home page. So why aren’t they happy with SQL for that content? Think about it. Don’t write something for me, I already know, and won’t be back here.

You bet I’ll have fun indexing. A lot more than you. No worries about normal forms and DB admin rights to store text snippets for a few dozen web pages. And just look at the swift timeframes from the Perl web-app chart.

Look at your MODx motto - MODx frees people do what they want. Except they must use SQL?

I’m glad you kids enjoy thinking in N languages with the excuse that some aren’t hassle for macho geeks and why don’t I just get hip. Well, fine. I believe in KISS and limited exposure. My gray cells may not be as young as yours. I could get deeptech and blow away this silliness, but why. Even my SQL gurus don’t defend SQL this agressively. They know better.

For me it’s just a retro fad sponsored by MySQL, Inc. and over-hyped by crowd behavior. There are better ways to organize CMS content, I just want a system that lets me do things my way. MODx ain’t it. So thanks for the chitchat, that much is worth knowing.
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QnA Mar 15, 2009, 12:12 AM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9349
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9348 Quote from: QnA at Mar 14, 2009, 02:07 AM

My opinion: 90% of all current blogs, web sites that use MySQL shouldn’t be using it. Slowdown is noticeable vs. flat file CMS sites. See web-app.net for contrast (and I hate Perl). Firefox’s SQLite is dog slow even from ramdisk. Things were better before. I’m a sysadmin, I know what I’m doing with tuneup.
You sure? Do you use query caching, or memcached?

You find most CMS web sites won’t eat their own dogfood; they use wikis.
What? Where are these "most CMS websites"? Most all the CMS websites I know use their own CMSes for their website. And I work in this business.

To me that says something. We also have Google; need for SQL queries is much reduced, even for the large content sites. Just use Google.
Use Google for what? For finding sites that use SQL?

Where SQL belongs is exactly where the links above say it belongs - millions of small data items updated frequently in private databases. The only form of CMS content near that requirement is a forum.
What are you talking about? SQL is a database language. Databases are designed for storing any time of data format. A good CMS also breaks down content into "millions of small data items". You’re not making much sense.

To each his own. I consider SQL archaic mainframe tech dressed as modern hotness.
You’re entitled to your opinion; but I would argue that you are completely, utterly wrong.

Google doesn’t use SQL, but MapReduce. Good for them, but they want to pawn another buzzword, ’cloud computing’ - or, client/server. Supposedly, the PC rescued us from that. It’s all rehash from prehistory. Just depends what you’re trying to sell.
Google may use MapReduce, sure, but that doesn’t make it any better than SQL. I can post plenty of articles that show MapReduce as crap. It’s only useful in certain situations.

I personally don’t want Yet Another Language when I have already HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP.
HTML is debatable as a language, CSS is ridiculously simple. JS is tough until you understand closures and browser idiosyncrasies. PHP is harder, I’ll give you that. SQL is a piece of cake.

I can live without SQL and DB abstraction layers just to pull text snippets from disk. Thanks anyway, boys.
Sure, go for it - but have fun sorting, indexing, and searching those on a reasonable timeframe. And forget multi-server hosting, alternative caches, or other forms of load distribution. And good luck trying to run a million-hit-a-day site on all those file_get_contents() or include calls.

Were you here to ask a question, or unload an agenda?
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splittingred Mar 13, 2009, 10:55 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9348
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9347 http://www.dokuwiki.org/faq:database
http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/FlatFileAdvantages
http://www.web-app.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=viewnews&id=44
http://www.greenash.net.au/posts/thoughts/drupal-lite-drupal-minus-its-parts
http://thinkvitamin.com/features/redefining-content-management/
http://www.hiveminds.co.uk/?p=35375

My opinion: 90% of all current blogs, web sites that use MySQL shouldn’t be using it. Slowdown is noticeable vs. flat file CMS sites. See web-app.net for contrast (and I hate Perl). Firefox’s SQLite is dog slow even from ramdisk. Things were better before. I’m a sysadmin, I know what I’m doing with tuneup.

You find most CMS web sites won’t eat their own dogfood; they use wikis. To me that says something. We also have Google; need for SQL queries is much reduced, even for the large content sites. Just use Google.

Where SQL belongs is exactly where the links above say it belongs - millions of small data items updated frequently in private databases. The only form of CMS content near that requirement is a forum.

To each his own. I consider SQL archaic mainframe tech dressed as modern hotness. Google doesn’t use SQL, but MapReduce. Good for them, but they want to pawn another buzzword, ’cloud computing’ - or, client/server. Supposedly, the PC rescued us from that. It’s all rehash from prehistory. Just depends what you’re trying to sell.

I personally don’t want Yet Another Language when I have already HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP. I can live without SQL and DB abstraction layers just to pull text snippets from disk. Thanks anyway, boys.
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QnA Mar 13, 2009, 09:07 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9347
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9346

As for the speed, MODx caches the pages for you so most of your content could be coming directly from the cache without any MySQL access at all. The speed penalty is minimal.]]>
BobRay Feb 21, 2009, 09:15 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9346
<![CDATA[Re: Without MySQL]]> https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9345 The problem is mandatory MySQL. I don’t want it for various reasons; one is web host surcharges, another is overkill/slowdown. MySQL seems to ’infect’ every CMS. In what way? Surcharges and slowdown really depend on what host you choose - I’m not really understanding why without a search for a good host, that MODx (and MySQL) wouldn’t fit. There is plenty of low-cost hosting out there that provides excellent performance, just needs a bit of research (search the forums, plenty of recommendations for MODx-compatible hosting options)]]> garryn Feb 21, 2009, 06:01 PM https://forums.modx.com/thread/1230/without-mysql#dis-post-9345